WolfRyder

I was out of the running at around $500, but wasn't sure exactely what to make of this bike? How do you compare it to other named lugged Columbus Italians? Rare Stelbel early pioneeer of Tig welded frames and Campy Super record mid eighties clean. Think there is only about 2000 vintage Stelbels made Defintely peaked my interest and wanted to make a play at it. The unique Campy Record curved back shifters with custom braze ons to fit were pretty cool also.

WolfRyder

What you guys got nothing on this, Am I the only one that found this bike interesting? Maybe I should of posted in just Classic Vintage section.

cb400bill

Thread moved from Appraisals to C&V with three day forwarding.

Lakerat

Kind of niche machine since it has innovative features. I'd prefer a more classic design myself, but it is nice. The head tube and the shifters kind of grow on you. I'd say it went for fair money, unless its crazy collectable. Then it was cheap.

bulldog1935

with 36 bids and a final price of $700, I would say that bike set its own market value in auction.
Looks like a nice ride.

TenGrainBread 

Stelbel has an interesting history and the bikes were certainly well made. But many buying vintage want lugs.

The brand is still around under new ownership. They make very nice high end custom steel bikes nowadays.

Velognome 

If your into it, seems pretty cool. Sounds like you are having some remorse that you didn't hold on to the end. Maybe another $250 would have brought it home? Hope you get a chance at another one some day.

WolfRyder

Yeah I am feeling after all that approaching that amount I am looking more for a traditional lugged Italian Campy machine. CoLumbus SLX and SR would be bests so will keep looking.

cyclotoine

That headtube looks cool and it looks like a pretty beefy chainstay bridge. I bet it was a stiff machine.

unworthy1

definitely a conversation piece; Stelbel is a seldom-seen marque but very highly regarded ans the craftsmanship looks first rate (tho I am not a fan of these "aero fad" era frames, some folks are). Only thing that might concern me is that we know metallurgy focused on making changes to steel alloys specifically cause the early steels (such as Columbus SL and Reynolds 531) were NOT well suited to TiG welding (high temperatures compared to brazing with bronze or silver alloys). So given this early '80s vintage I'd assume the joints might be weakened if this was actually TiG'd rather than fillet-brazed. But if that translates to a looming frame failure: who knows?

WolfRyder

While on subject how do you feel about early tig welded MTB frame like a Fat Chance? or others Bontrager maybe can't recall if they were lugged, but I was just comparing those to say a lugged Bridgstone mb1-2. I think those early Fat Chance lugless frames are pretty well regarded, but dunno if the type of MTB tubing made a difference compared to a mid eighties Road Columbus or Reynolds. It does seem to make sense that later steels could be better suited for Tig weld treatments.

The Butterfly Aero part on the front of frame would seem to give it more strengh.

Hey I just had a thought. What about my Viscount? no lugs on that and haven't heard about any problems with frame fatigue on that--The recall Aluminum forks of course, but the one I have has the newer sloped crown steel fork.

fietsbob

I own a Steel TIG CX Frame made by Pinarello, Bought new in 1990.

I suspect the bike in question is a mix of lugs and fillet brazing, but I'm not there to hand inspect it..

unworthy1

While on subject how do you feel about early tig welded MTB frame like a Fat Chance? or others Bontrager maybe can't recall if they were lugged, but I was just comparing those to say a lugged Bridgstone mb1-2. I think those early Fat Chance lugless frames are pretty well regarded, but dunno if the type of MTB tubing made a difference compared to a mid eighties Road Columbus or Reynolds. It does seem to make sense that later steels could be better suited for Tig weld treatments.

The Butterfly Aero part on the front of frame would seem to give it more strengh.

Hey I just had a thought. What about my Viscount? no lugs on that and haven't heard about any problems with frame fatigue on that--The recall Aluminum forks of course, but the one I have has the newer sloped crown steel fork.[/QUOTE]
Viscounts were fillet brazed (plain-gauge British-made chrome-moly tubing, and thin-walled, too, IIRC it was branded "Lightning" or some such and supposedly drawn for air-frame use). The well-known weak joint on Viscounts is the pinch-bolt sleeve on top/backside of the seat tube, that often tears off.
I think highly of Bontrager having owned one and Fat Chance too, tho never owned one of them.
I have not researched the tubing used for the earliest TiG-welded steel MTN. frames but the drive to make more TiG-friendly tubing alloys was definitely pushed along by such builders...and Columbus, Reynolds, Tange, Ishiwata, True Temper all joined in.

DMC707

Lots of nice parts and a nice frame ---- but seems a bit hodge-podged together (1 tubular, 1 clincher rim, --a dusting of Shimano in there as well )
I'm surprised it sold for that much with all of those issues --- but someone thought $700 for the frame and a few Record bits was worth it

Wordwreckin

If you check out their Instagram they have some gorgeous bikes that look incredibly well made. I don't normally care for anything modern, but that brand has some nice frames.

WolfRyder

This Stebel pursuit bike looks phenominal and went for big money.

exmechanic89

I agree, it went for more than I would've expected with it's mish mash of parts. Personally collectable bikes dont do anything for me. I like to ride my bikes, not worry about the value being destroyed by actually using it.

WolfRyder

Yeah the bike should be all Super record and looks like the wheels were just thrown in and not original to bike. Might be hard to find matching year SR fnt derailer also.

crank_addict

Not my attempt to derail the OP's topic but interested in your comment of Viscount / Lambert. I recently acquired one and of course had to really dig for the truth over b.s. surrounding the brand. Anyways, without being a loyal to the Viscount brand, I'm just one who wants to experience the machine and learn as I go. Its a fascinating story and thanks for the brief comparison to the OP subject.

WolfRyder

"The well-known weak joint on Viscounts is the pinch-bolt sleeve on top/backside of the seat tube, that often tears off"

The seat tube on the Viscount has an extension of about 1 inch from the connecting tubes.(One thing with that extended seat post tube it doesn't give an accurate indication of frame size if you measure down to middle of BB). You have to subtract an inch. I guess he is saying that part is weaker but I don't see any problems on my bike which is VG+ and had seen some riding. I like them for what they are, and consider them to be decent unique vintage steel bikes with interesting history. The thing is light also and handles pretty nimble. I like the geometry on it.

unworthy1

I like the Viscount frames too but even when you subtract the "death fork" there were several weaknesses remaining such as the pressed-in BB bearings and the ridiculous un-tapered square crank spindle, plus the pinch-bolt...but those unemployed British AeroSpace workers really could fillet-braze (if the "legends" are true about who built them) and the frames are really nice riding once you compensate for the glitches.
The guy I am (poorly) quoting about the tubing used for the Viscount Aerospace bikes is Norris Lockley who did research into the subject but I'm half remembering what he wrote (with only half a brain) but the prat that stuck was that the tubing was NOT a product of Reynolds/TI or Raleigh nor some "ancient dinosaur" like Accles and Pollock...not that they wouldn't have ALL made great tubing but the stuff Viscount used was unique.

unworthy1

Why stop now since this has become a raging thread hi-jack? I found the stuff from Norris Lockley concerning the Viscount tubing (Phoenix, which I had got wrong, of course!)
Viscount however in their search for "home-grown" materials and products
sourced their "Aerospace" tubing from a company called Phoenix, a
manufacturer based in Wednesbury not far from Birmingham. Not much is
known about Phoenix tubing except that it was thought to be a plain
gauge seamed , rather than a double-butted drawn and seamless tubing.
Additionally it was a Chrome-Moly rather than a Chrome-Manganese.