Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30
  1. #1
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,345
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    International shipping debacle

    Back in October, a buyer in Spain (I forgot to specify no international bids - mistake #1) won my Ebay auction for a pair of cycling shoes. A flat rate intl. USPS box was going to run $40+, which the buyer balked at, so I boxed them up as small and light as possible and got the rate down to around $20. I sent them via USPS with no tracking, just the customs declaration # (mistake #2). The box went out on Oct. 21, the same day I received payment from the buyer. Well, you guessed it, the buyer has put a hold on funds and initiated a dispute for non-receipt of item. The only "tracking" of any kind I have is the customs #, and all USPS can tell me is that it went through Chicago on 10/22. There's no information at all from Spanish customs, but my PO tells me that sometimes there never is, even for normally delivered packages.

    I communicated the shipping info above to the buyer, and later asked the buyer to check with Spanish customs as that was difficult for me to do from the States. I have had no reply to either of those messages.

    The Paypal dispute runs until 11/25, at which time I assume that if the package still hasn't been delivered, the buyer will escalate this to a Paypal claim.

    Any advice on what else I can do on this end? Just let it run its course and hope the package arrives in the next week, or hope Paypal can sort it out if it doesn't?

    I've learned my lesson; I don't need to hear about mistakes #1 and #2, I'm just trying to avoid a third. Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Louisville
    Posts
    8,196
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
    Any advice on what else I can do on this end? Just let it run its course and hope the package arrives in the next week, or hope Paypal can sort it out if it doesn't?
    That's pretty much it, I think. Say what you want about the U.S. Postal system, but so far as I can tell there is very, very little theft. You can't say that about most foreign postal services. It is very rare that an international eBay transaction is satisfactory to the seller. Most foreign bidders think eBay is some sort of negotiation platform (AFTER the sale is made).

  3. #3
    Gone World Hepster 23skidoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    1,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    All I can offer is my sympathy. Best of luck, though.
    77 Trek TX300--78 Trek TX-300--79 Trek 510--83 Trek 520--83 Nickel Plated Trek 400--86 Trek Elance 400--75 Gitane Interclub--73 Viscount 'Death Fork SS--76 Viscount Aerospace Pro--80's Diamant Verbinnen--80's Basso--90's Montagner SS--84 SR Explorer MTB

  4. #4
    PanGalacticGargleBlaster Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Smugglers Notch, Vermont
    My Bikes
    Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.
    Posts
    7,479
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd just do what you can to make sure the buyer isn't holding the item and trying to put one over on you. Aside from that sounds like you've done what you can do given the situation. Unfortunately its always the seller that eats it when something goes wrong on ebay.

    Don't beat yourself up though...even with an airtight item description you can still get screwed as a seller.
    --Don't Panic.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Minnesota- the frozen tundra
    My Bikes
    1977 Raleigh Super Grand Prix, 1976 Gitane Tour de France
    Posts
    1,936
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I ship international packages all the time and unfortunately with USPS you're just going to have to hope the buyer is honest and says he receives it if in fact he does.

    Lately USPS to Australia has been brutally slow but the packages have been getting there, with the added bonus of no tracking info. Your best bet is to try to get the guy to understand that USPS can be a bit slow at times and patience helps immensely.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,326
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unfortunately for international items tracking and or positive verification of delivery to the addressed is necessary. Buyers don't like it because it costs. Some frequent international sellers state that its yours upon delivery to the carrier, (I don't think paypal would really care about that) if a problem came up.

    When I have purchased from overseas, the price paid including the extra for delivery verification is part of the deal, and I factor its complete price into my willingness to pay. So, in the future state the added costs for sure or allow domestic only. Or, international bidders by approval, for some countries it's just not possible to have a closed loop without really stupid money.

    Working extra to reduce overseas postage is good, but remember your time is worth something too.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I have shipped USPS international many times. Nothing lost yet.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    7,785
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    A friend of mine had the exact same thing happen (int'l buyer balked at insured/tracked USPS Priority Mail cost, so my friend sent it the less expensive way w/ no tracking or insurance). Perhaps the buyer was a cheat, but at any rate, my friend was out the item plus the refund. A very sour experience.

    Neal

  9. #9
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,345
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the replies. The shipping charges are more than I have invested in the item, so there's no potential for a huge loss or anything. Just figured I'd ask, as this is new terrain for me. I will definitely be more cautious in the future and I'd encourage others to do likewise. My gut feeling is the item is just held up somewhere and will ultimately be delivered. Then of course the buyer will be in the driver's seat as to whether to release the funds or simply shrug and ask "what package?"

  10. #10
    Senior Member gbalke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    West of St. Louis
    My Bikes
    (3) 1970's Raleigh Sports, (1) 1968 Robin Hood 3 speed, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix, 1976 Raleigh Grand Prix, 1969 Peugeot UO-18, 1971 Peugeot UO-08, 1980 Giant road bike, 1954 Humber, 1940ish Hercules Popular, 1963 Dunelt, 2007 Trek 3700 mountain bike
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This happens overseas as well. I've seen many items listed on e-Bay UK where the seller either refuses to ship to the US due to frequent loss of items or they will only ship with signed for verification. This usually adds quite a bit to the already high shipping costs, sometimes actually more than shipping alone. If you're paying for a hard to find item, and paying a dear price for it, it makes sense to insure your purchase.
    1968 Robin Hood 3 speed...1970's Raleigh Sports Pathracer
    1972 Raleigh Sports............1973 Raleigh Sports
    1974 Raleigh Grand Prix......1974 Raleigh Grand Prix (made in Holland)
    1969 Peugeot UO-18...........1971 Peugeot UO-8
    1980's Giant Project.............2007 Trek 3700 mountain bike
    1971 German 3 speed.........1977 Motobecane Super Mirage Mixte
    1970 Raleigh Twenty...........1972 Raleigh Sports (donor bike)
    1954 Humber Sports (my newest project)

  11. #11
    Senior Member Chris Pringle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Pearl of the Pacific, Mexico
    My Bikes
    '12 Rodriguez UTB Custom, '83 Miyata 610, '83 Nishiki Century Mixte (Work of Art), '06 Specialized Epic Marathon MTB
    Posts
    1,086
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I worked for 10 years doing international business for a large corporation in Phoenix. We'd never send any valuable product by regular mail anywhere outside of the USA even if the customer begged us to do it. If the customer didn't want to pay for traceable shipping, it was best not to do business.
    Handcrafted panniers and bags for the discerning cyclist


  12. #12
    Senior Member tugrul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Portsmouth, NH
    Posts
    2,437
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
    Well, you guessed it, the buyer has put a hold on funds and initiated a dispute for non-receipt of item. The only "tracking" of any kind I have is the customs #, and all USPS can tell me is that it went through Chicago on 10/22. There's no information at all from Spanish customs, but my PO tells me that sometimes there never is, even for normally delivered packages.
    So, you have some evidence versus just his word, and Paypal will reverse the transaction on that basis?

    Being the only, or at least one of the few low resistances way of getting money from people, I guess you have no choice, but continuing to do business with them just enables them.

  13. #13
    Senior Member slushlover2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    450
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Based on my experiences with paypal and ebay, I can assure you that they absolutely do not care about the seller. They will side with the buyer 100% of the time. I quit selling on ebay after 2 bad deals with paypal.
    Colnago Super
    Colnago C50
    Litespeed Vortex
    Softride Powerwing

    Bettendorf, Iowa

  14. #14
    Rabid Member KillerBeagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Central Texas
    My Bikes
    2006 Trek 2100, 1973 Crescent Mark XX, 196x Peugeot PX-10
    Posts
    195
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by slushlover2 View Post
    Based on my experiences with paypal and ebay, I can assure you that they absolutely do not care about the seller. They will side with the buyer 100% of the time.
    I agree.

    I sell cell phone software via an automated system that uses Paypal for checkout. Our servers record when the software was downloaded to the cell phone, when it was installed, and when it was first run. Even with that as evidence, any buyer that claims they never received the software will get a refund after the Paypal dispute process finishes.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It almost sounds like a scam. The buyer says, "No, I won't pay that much for shipping." If the seller sticks to his guns, the buyer drops out claiming excessive shipping charges levied after the sale. If the seller agrees to drop all tracking and then ships, the buyer then says, "I never got the package."

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post

    It is very rare that an international eBay transaction is satisfactory to the seller. Most foreign bidders think eBay is some sort of negotiation platform (AFTER the sale is made).
    Colonel, it has been my experience in international trade, the real negotiations begin only after the contract has been signed. It seems to be uniquely American to think the deal is "done", cast in cponcrete, once the contract is signed. I think this is particularly true of Asians, even those here in the USA. It's true of Middle Easterners, too. It is true of Europeans, too, however, to a much, much lesser extent. Have you ever noticed that?

  17. #17
    Senior Member poprad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In transit
    My Bikes
    07 Vanilla, 98 IRD road frame built up with 25th Ann DA, Surly cross check with 105 comp, 78 Raleigh Comp GS, 85 Centurionelli
    Posts
    1,167
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mills View Post
    Colonel, it has been my experience in international trade, the real negotiations begin only after the contract has been signed. It seems to be uniquely American to think the deal is "done", cast in cponcrete, once the contract is signed. I think this is particularly true of Asians, even those here in the USA. It's true of Middle Easterners, too. It is true of Europeans, too, however, to a much, much lesser extent. Have you ever noticed that?
    I know I have. Having done business on behalf of the USG on several continents I concur that the U.S. is the only place in the world that I have experienced the idea of a contract as being binding once signed. Most cultures view it as the opening of a bargaining session.
    I live in search of finest examples of the 3 B's: Bikes, Beans (coffee), and Beer

  18. #18
    Senior Member ricohman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Saskatchewan
    Posts
    2,389
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've bought many things from Britain. And every package has arrived safely and all were not insured. I think some international buyers are scammers.

  19. #19
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,311
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mills View Post
    Colonel, it has been my experience in international trade, the real negotiations begin only after the contract has been signed. It seems to be uniquely American to think the deal is "done", cast in cponcrete, once the contract is signed. I think this is particularly true of Asians, even those here in the USA. It's true of Middle Easterners, too. It is true of Europeans, too, however, to a much, much lesser extent. Have you ever noticed that?
    Absolutely. In some cultures, everything is negotiable, and many do not respect a buyer or seller who doesn't bargain. It's cultural, not selfishness or miserly, because I've found many of the cultures for whom negotiations are a given also to be the most generous to a neighbor in need.

    Then again, at one time, when you made an offer to purchase a home, and it was accepted, that was the end of it. These days, it's just the beginning.......

    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

    I'm getting to the point where arrogance is a virtue....

    1982 Lotus Classique
    1986 De Rosa Professional SLX
    1987 D'Arienzo (Basso) SLX
    1995 Hot Tubes TT
    1998 Kestrel KM 40 Airfoil
    2006 Cinelli XLR8R-2
    2011 Eddy Merckx EMX3
    2014 Wraith Hustle

  20. #20
    rhm
    rhm is online now
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1945? Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1954 Drysdale, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,488
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I bought an ebay item from England five weeks ago. Not cheap, but I'm not complaining about the price. Seller has 100% positive feedback, replies to my emails, seems honest and clearly has a reputation that he values.

    But the item has not arrived. What do you recommend, talk to paypal?

    At any rate, I have complete sympathy with both parties here.

  21. #21
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Louisville
    Posts
    8,196
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mills View Post
    Colonel, it has been my experience in international trade, the real negotiations begin only after the contract has been signed. It seems to be uniquely American to think the deal is "done", cast in cponcrete, once the contract is signed. I think this is particularly true of Asians, even those here in the USA. It's true of Middle Easterners, too. It is true of Europeans, too, however, to a much, much lesser extent. Have you ever noticed that?
    Yes, I would generally agree. As others have said, though, I think it is mostly attributable to cultural differences. That said, I prefer to do business our way. It sure is a lot faster and less complicated.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    That said, I prefer to do business our way. It sure is a lot faster and less complicated.
    I agree, it's the American way.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Blighty
    My Bikes
    2009 BobJackson Vigorelli, 1979 Gazelle Champion Mondial, 1989 Dave Russell 653
    Posts
    226
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Yes, I would generally agree. As others have said, though, I think it is mostly attributable to cultural differences. That said, I prefer to do business our way. It sure is a lot faster and less complicated.
    There's some pretty xenophobic comments on here... Making out that the "american way" is the best way.
    There are unscrupulous and dishonest people from every culture, nationality, religion and walk of life.
    If you don't want to ship internationally keep the auction for your own countrymen / women
    I've made some great purchases from the states (i'm in NZ at the moment) - sellers have been very helpful and honest.
    I've also sold to the US and many other countries and on the whole people have great
    The only problem iv'e had with a buyer was with a guy from Canada - he was a completely unreasonable w***er but every other canadian i've met has been cool....

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think you are somewhat mistaken. Calling someone a xenophobe is an insult. There is no "phobia" involved.

    The "American way" derives from a simple principles such as, "your word is your bond", "deliver the goods once you sign the contract", etc. Very simple, honest and forthright principles that make for good business. Many, most all of them are codified in US law. The nothing "xenophobic" about it.

    Of course there are unscrupulous people in all societies. That completely misses the point. The point was that in other places, signing the contract is seemingly just the beginning of negotiations, a waypoint, not the agreement. For them, this is not necessarily "unscrupulous", it is the way it is done. Some places also require bribery as a means of securing a signature on a contract. It is unscrupulous to us but for them, it is a fact of life.

    Honestly, the American way is the best. I'll make no bones about it.

    P.S. - Please note that all the countries you cite, wherein you have had good business dealings, have a strong tie back to western Europe and western civilization.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Blighty
    My Bikes
    2009 BobJackson Vigorelli, 1979 Gazelle Champion Mondial, 1989 Dave Russell 653
    Posts
    226
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "Calling someone a xenophobe is an insult."

    if i've insulted anyone i apologise


    "Honestly, the American way is the best. I'll make no bones about it."

    In America maybe. I'm English so would say that the English way is the best.


    "Of course there are unscrupulous people in all societies. That completely misses the point. The point was that in other places, signing the contract is seemingly just the beginning of negotiations, a waypoint, not the agreement. For them, this is not necessarily "unscrupulous", it is the way it is done. Some places also require bribery as a means of securing a signature on a contract. It is unscrupulous to us but for them, it is a fact of life."

    Well that's true but generally only applies if you are doing business in the said country. Ebay has (or should have) it's own rules / guidelines that all buyers/sellers no matter where they are from should abide by.

    The OP mentioned having trouble with someone from Spain - that's in europe if i'm not mistaken.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •