Prop Man

I am seriously considering buying this bike. I have been looking for a 3-speed Paramount Tourist model for some time and just came across this one. The seller isn't a Schwinn expert, but in his opinion (he's a real bike guy) this one is pretty much all original except for the chain guard (which he replaced--it should be chrome and it isn't). In his research he has found that the drop handlebars and pedals were "options" on the Tourist model Paramount. I am afraid I would try to find the more common "upright" style if I were to buy the bike.

Does this look as original as it appears, or do you think it's a kludge? I think the seller is a 100% honest, striaght-up guy, but as I said, NOT a Schwinn or Paramount expert. Does the paint look original?

I posted on the "value" section of the forums, but a couple of folks suggested that I post here too.

Here are some pics:

jamesj

wow

I cant help you any but that is one pretty bike....

-JAMES

Oregon Southpaw

I am not qualified to identify this bike but...wow. Its amazing.

The only thing that makes me wonder is the decal on the downtube, seems odd to me that it would be oriented that way. Here's a picture from the 1959 catalog.

Roll-Monroe-Co

Calling Kurt, Stan, and Pastor Bob!

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

wow, beautiful.

Bianchigirll 

this is quite nice looking.



love the pinstrip and the lug outline

Picchio Special

I too am skeptical of the decal placement - and also the condition of the decals generally on a 50-year-old bike. Of course, some of them could have been added later. On the other hand, the lug lining and pinstriping looks plausible, from what can be seen in the pics. Later restorers often make the mistake of hugging the lug shorelines more closely than Joe Brilando would have done. His work had a "feathery" quality that is tough to accurately mimic. Better photos of the lug lining might tell more of the story, but then there are other Paramount folks afoot who may be able to detect other clues. I would expect to see a Titan bar and stem if those were original. '59 was a real transitional year for the Paramount - here's another one with the Nervex lugs and pre-Disneyland graphics for comparison (though a track model): https://bikeville.blogspot.com/2009/0...unt-track.html

cudak888 

There are three things that do not add up:

A. Considerably earlier decal scheme
B. Campagnolo dropouts that suggest a post-1958 model - IIRC, Tourists used Schwinn's cheap stamped drops.

At this point, I wouldn't even start trying to pick this one apart without the serial number. Get the serial first, before anything else.


Personally, I think its a P12 that someone cut the RD hanger off, painted in an earlier scheme, and turned into a tourist w/the original drop bars.

-Kurt

dbakl

I'm not a Paramount expert, but to me it looks like a later frame repainted with earlier decals; but I don't know, maybe there was a transitional model? Pinstriping does not look Schwinn to me. The horizontal downtube decal seems right for that decal set, though I think it should read from the right, at least that's how my repro set came.

Grand Bois

Did they ever use that rack on a Paramount? It doesn't quite fit, I think because it was made for a bike with 26' wheels. My middle weight with Bendix 2 speed hub had that same rack rack.

Even if it's a fake, it's beautiful and I'd love to own it.

Prop Man

More pics! I hope these help you guys figure out the story on this one!

cudak888 

B10: Anywhere from 6/30/59 to 10/30/59.

https://waterfordbikes.com/now/home.p...aramountdating

May be a genuine transitional model.

-Kurt

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

+1 I looked into one of those racks this past spring for a bike of my own and only was able to find reference to them as being for 26" wheels.

isnt there like a provenance report you can get from Waterford?

mickey85

Either way it's super nice. I think I'd go $200 for it, but wouldn't go much higher...

norskagent

If it fit me, I would go somewhat higher than $200.

Prop Man

Really? I wsa thinking it was worth about 4 times that. Guess I'm way out of touch . . .

nlerner

If it's original, it is worth 4 times that, I'd bet.

Neal

Grand Bois

I'd pay considerably more than $200 for it. I don't really care if it's a fake. I like it.

sailorbenjamin

It's about my size but I'm holding out for a green one with chrome lugs. Then I'll get my $200 out.

pastorbobnlnh 

I agree. And probably not too many were made. And if that is the original paint, WOW, WOW, WOW!!!!

Might be worth 8 times $200 or more to the right buyer.

I'd say it would be worth the effort to find the correct chaingaurd or to try to reproduce one to match.

Mike Mills

What if it is a complete repaint? What does that do to the various appraisals being made?

mickey85

If it's original, I'd go with more. If not, IMO it's worth the cost of parts. If the frame is indeed hacked up, as Cuda might think it is, I'll stick with $200. If not, I could see $800 or so.

Mike Mills

It's a nice bike. Buy the bike, not the story.

To me, the paint and decals do not look original but I have no good basis for that other than looking at the photos - it's too good.

What I did notice, comparing it to the catalog picture, is the chain guard may not be original but it is the proper one.

Andrew F

I'd bet anything it's a repaint atleast. Look at the close up of the decal in the first group of pictures, shouldn't it have been a water slide, this looks like it's not. Also the black and the lining look too bright for a 50 year old.

I'd buy it just because it's so cool (at the right price), but you'd have to come up with a lot of evidence to convince me it's the real thing.

cudak888 

One other thing: You can stop debating about the paint, because it isn't original. Would you honestly expect to find an example in this condition if anything buy NOS? No.

Need concrete proof? Downtube lettering is a printed decal, not a painted transfer:



Note the raised edge around the decal surface.

It isn't correct or 100% original at any rate. Sure is a nice looker though, and if originality is not your concern, sure - go for it.

-Kurt