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Old 11-16-10, 10:09 AM   #1
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What is this? (lotso pictures)

Walking through a yard, saw some bike frames lying against a shed. Asked the guy if wanted to sell the frames. Probably overpaid.

This frame has been rattle canned, maybe more than once. The fork says Basso on the dropouts, but it seems like the fork tube is too long. So it may not be original. But I started searching for pictures of Bassos with oversized down tubes.

At first I thought it might be a Basso Ascot. The Ascot uses columbus MS tubing which had the oversized down tube. But MS tubing also had a triangular seat stay, and this does not. Also, most Bassos I found had a unique and different seat clamp. I couldn't find any Bassos that had this same type of seat clamp, except maybe the Viper, and the Viper's I found were TIG welded not lugged.

The shifters on it appear to be C-Record Syncro 7 speed indexed. I don't know the other components, except they are campy. Has a braze on FD. Vertical dropouts. Internal cable routing. The down tube is flattened where it goes into the BB.

So what do you think it is?

Here are the lotso pictures















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Old 11-16-10, 10:10 AM   #2
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More pictures:












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Old 11-16-10, 10:23 AM   #3
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Its clearly well built. I'd imagine it might weigh a good deal less when you get all that paint off of there...its really slopped on thick.

Looks like a fun project.
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Old 11-16-10, 10:24 AM   #4
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A Basso that has been dipped in an acid bath?
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Old 11-16-10, 10:36 AM   #5
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If it was Basso, I'd have expected embossing somewhere else on the frame. For instance the GAP and ASTRA models used traditional seat clusters but had embossing on the stay caps. Is the oversize downtube round or ovalizised at the bottom. Oval tubes were typical of Bianchi Superset II but again, I'd have expected more embossing. Serial number?
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Old 11-16-10, 10:39 AM   #6
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The rear dropouts look like Shimano UF, which suggests that the fork may be a replacement. Gipiemme did make a similar dropout, but yours appear to be different.

Your bike:


Shimano UF:


Gipiemme "semi-vertical:"


Note that the raised dropout face extends down to the derailleur hanger on both your bike and the Shimano dropouts, but they are clearly separate on the Gipiemme dropout.

Perhaps it is a Japanese (or American custom) frame with a Basso fork?
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Old 11-16-10, 11:00 AM   #7
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What's the threading on the bottom bracket? Granted it has an ovalized DT, but I noticed the BB shell styling is rather plain.
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Old 11-16-10, 11:21 AM   #8
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To answer some of your questions-- I have not seen any embossing on the frame. If the frame dropouts had a name, it was long gone. The fork clearly has "basso" on the dropouts.

The down tube is definitely ovalized at the bottom.

Upon further review, there is a serial number on the bottom of the BB shell, but I can only read a "5". The rest is covered with gobs of paint. If it matters, the serial number is on the non-drive side, and appears to extend circumferentially around the shell, with the top of the numbers near the non-drive side crank.

I don't know the threading. I haven't tried to take off the cranks yet. And the battery is dead on my micrometer.

Jared

PS: I now have three frames that need paint removal. Sounds like a good reason to buy a harbor freight sandblaster.
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Old 11-16-10, 11:42 AM   #9
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The metallic pink color that shows through the black paint made me think Bertoni, - but I can't locate any pics of one with internal brake cable routing. You could play archeologist, I would guess that the original decals would start to show up after some light sanding.
Big chain ring is toast. Yikes.
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Old 11-16-10, 12:09 PM   #10
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I think it's a mongrel. That adjustable cup looks much older than the frame and probably came from a cottered crankset.
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Old 11-16-10, 12:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The rear dropouts look like Shimano UF, which suggests that the fork may be a replacement. Gipiemme did make a similar dropout, but yours appear to be different.

Your bike:


Shimano UF:


Gipiemme "semi-vertical:"


Note that the raised dropout face extends down to the derailleur hanger on both your bike and the Shimano dropouts, but they are clearly separate on the Gipiemme dropout.

Perhaps it is a Japanese (or American custom) frame with a Basso fork?
Those dropouts out are real close, but it does look like the "holes" in the frame dropouts might be a bit smaller than either the Shimano or Gipemme dropouts. I don't know if that is a difference that matters, and it may just be paint filling the holes.

Last edited by sjpitts; 11-16-10 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 11-16-10, 12:18 PM   #12
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The downtube being ovalized where it is attached to the BB shell is a feature of the Bianchi Super Set, so it may be a Bianchi.
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Old 11-16-10, 01:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
A Basso that has been dipped in an acid bath?
I think the guy that painted that bike was ON acid.
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Old 11-16-10, 01:23 PM   #14
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I think theschwinnman might be onto something.

Not quite an exact match, but close (i.e. no internal brake cable in the TT, different seat lug cluster), but the BB shell and rear dropout matches. Then again, Bianchi makes a gazillion different models.
http://s1237.photobucket.com/albums/...t=100_4829.jpg

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The downtube being ovalized where it is attached to the BB shell is a feature of the Bianchi Super Set, so it may be a Bianchi.
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Old 11-16-10, 02:00 PM   #15
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I think we have a winner. Well done!
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Old 11-16-10, 02:57 PM   #16
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You guys are amazing.

I did some looking at Bianchi's-- here is a 96 Veloce that has the same cable routing and similar seat lugs. We might be getting very close.

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2006/cc...dhead0506.html

I am going to keep looking for other examples.

And what about these components? Is there a date code on Campy components? I am still not sure what models the RD and FD are.

Jared

Pictures from link above:



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Old 11-16-10, 03:06 PM   #17
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If I recall correctly, Bianchi used the same frame across many models but just used different components.

Woo, I won my first 'identify this bike'!
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Old 11-16-10, 03:09 PM   #18
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If I recall correctly, Bianchi used the same frame across many models but just used different components.

Woo, I won my first 'identify this bike'!
Good on ya!
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Old 11-16-10, 03:41 PM   #19
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great job spotting and buying the frame and great job theschwinnman for the ID
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Old 11-16-10, 04:03 PM   #20
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Jared, I think the components are all Athena. The bb is all wrong, the fd is missing bits and the rd looks like the adjuster barrel, at least, is bent. The crank is also missing the extractor on the drive side. Was the bike stored under a shelf of leaking batteries? Since the chainrings are eaten away, I would be very careful of the bb.
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Old 11-16-10, 04:07 PM   #21
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I think that's it. One other detail I was looking for was the rear brake bridge. The '96 Bianchi Veloce pictures you found has that feature. Plus your bike might have been metallic red underneath the black paint. I think you might even have the same model campy athena rear derailleur.

[QUOTE=sjpitts;11796829]You guys are amazing.

I did some looking at Bianchi's-- here is a 96 Veloce that has the same cable routing and similar seat lugs. We might be getting very close.

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2006/cc...dhead0506.html

I am going to keep looking for other examples.

And what about these components? Is there a date code on Campy components? I am still not sure what models the RD and FD are.

Jared

Pictures from link above:
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Old 11-16-10, 07:11 PM   #22
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Jared, I think the components are all Athena. The bb is all wrong, the fd is missing bits and the rd looks like the adjuster barrel, at least, is bent. The crank is also missing the extractor on the drive side. Was the bike stored under a shelf of leaking batteries? Since the chainrings are eaten away, I would be very careful of the bb.
I didn't see any leaking batteries, but the frame was just resting on the chain rings. It could have been there for a long time, although the seat post and stem came out without too much difficulty. I am sure the BB is toast.
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Old 11-16-10, 07:17 PM   #23
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I recognized that brake bridge as well, it's the same inverted 'V' as the one on this Bianchi from the mid-90's with Columbus TSX tubing. But, I've seen it on other Italian's from this time period as well. I think it was more of a Columbus thing. I'd be more willing to trust that the fork is original and would be interested to know what brand the symbol stamped on it is.

This is the only photo I have on this computer of it, but still make out the bridge.
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Old 11-16-10, 09:09 PM   #24
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^
Good photo. Sharp bike.
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Old 11-16-10, 09:59 PM   #25
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I recognized that brake bridge as well, it's the same inverted 'V' as the one on this Bianchi from the mid-90's with Columbus TSX tubing. But, I've seen it on other Italian's from this time period as well. I think it was more of a Columbus thing.
Those bridges were widely available to framebuilders. I have one here, even:
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