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Old 11-16-10, 02:21 PM   #1
RFC
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Retrocarbon -- kind of an interesting little collection

http://picasaweb.google.com/norcalpa...roCarbonBikes#
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Old 11-16-10, 03:26 PM   #2
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That is cool. I wouldn't mind a retro carbon bike - there is a Trek 2300 on ebay that seems to be going pretty cheap right now - however, all of my rack spots are full.
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Old 11-16-10, 03:38 PM   #3
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that's the motivation I'm looking for: watch this space for an update...my friend has an ALAN Carbonio frameset with a slightly damaged (separating) tube/lug joint. He doesn't want to try to re-glue it, and it's not my size (I think about a 58/59)...OTOH he doesn't want to throw it away or give it to somebody who will: it's too good not to make a real attempt at a solid repair and put it back in service (for somebody else). I'm going to get his permission to take pics and get details up here...there must be somebody in C&V land who can revive this.
EDIT: pics of this frameset (it is a 58cm) are in this album:

http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w...io%20frameset/
The frameset is in SF, CA and I would do the packing/shipping for my friend the owner (I do a very good job).
It has a 57.5 TT, the only other issues beside the de-bond of the DT-to-headlug are it may have had two pair of WB fittings that aren't there anymore, just 4 holes.
It's not a Freebie, but he'd let it go very cheap...so I'll post this all up in the for-sale section with the price.

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Old 11-16-10, 03:44 PM   #4
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I enjoyed that gallery, carbon bikes looked so much better before they went all monocoque..
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Old 11-16-10, 05:00 PM   #5
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Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.

theres the exxon graftek
various treks
various specialized
some alan
peugeot
look (were they just alans?)
giant
I think I heard of carlton/raleigh doing one

apparently the first proto carbon bike was done in 69 right?
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Old 11-16-10, 05:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by divineAndbright View Post
Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.

theres the exxon graftek
various treks
various specialized
some alan
peugeot
look (were they just alans?)
giant
I think I heard of carlton/raleigh doing one

apparently the first proto carbon bike was done in 69 right?
Look did their own bikes. As did Vitus, the peugeot 3 tube carbons were Vitus.
Add mossberg to that list.
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Old 11-16-10, 05:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divineAndbright View Post
Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.

theres the exxon graftek
various treks
various specialized
some alan
peugeot
look (were they just alans?)
giant
I think I heard of carlton/raleigh doing one

apparently the first proto carbon bike was done in 69 right?
You forgot one big one....VITUS!....

Although you did mention Peugeot, but their frames were different from the Vitus models in quite a few details, even though the PY10-FC (which matched general specs of the Vitus Carbone 3) were supplied by Vitus.
I also like these regular shaped CF bikes more than the monocoque designs that came later. As for Vitus CF bikes, frankly I think that their bikes lost their elegant looks when they came out with the ZX-1. Didn't help that they painted most of them in garish colors and less than impressive graphics. To me it's like comparing the long elegant lines of an old English longbow to a modern compound desgin.
JMOs
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Last edited by Chombi; 11-16-10 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 11-16-10, 05:43 PM   #8
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I remember the Exxon Graftek. It's the first carbon fiber bike I remember. What year was that? 1980 or so? It was very expensive and had the reputation of being as hard as a rock. Of course, I never got to try one.
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Old 11-16-10, 08:08 PM   #9
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The were a few different Specialized Allez models. The Epic version were the carbon fiber jobs. The believe the earliest ones had red names, then after those there was yellow text, and then multi-colors like the ones in the link.
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Old 11-16-10, 08:11 PM   #10
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I remember the Exxon Graftek. It's the first carbon fiber bike I remember. What year was that? 1980 or so? It was very expensive and had the reputation of being as hard as a rock. Of course, I never got to try one.
'75 wasnt it? I thought they had a reputation for breaking or cracking or both!
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Old 11-16-10, 08:32 PM   #11
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Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.
The Univega's were rebadged Giants. I remember them from the mid-90s. The (only) cool thing about the Univegas is that they had Giant tint the resin so the frame tubing had a transluscent red or green tint.
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Old 11-16-10, 08:53 PM   #12
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The were a few different Specialized Allez models. The Epic version were the carbon fiber jobs. The believe the earliest ones had red names, then after those there was yellow text, and then multi-colors like the ones in the link.
Also note that Specialized changed the finish on the lugs when they corrected lug/tube bonding issues that came up with the early production bikes. They went from a polished silver finish on the lugs to a finish that made them look darker. Look for the darker lugs if considering to buy the Epic Carbon bike.

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Old 11-16-10, 09:06 PM   #13
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I miss my 2300, albeit it was to small.

Gotta love a carbon pump to compliment the carbon frame.



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Old 11-17-10, 12:01 AM   #14
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How were the early Specialized carbon frames?
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Old 11-17-10, 12:11 AM   #15
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Antique carbon fibre thread? Well, if you insist.



I actually didn't realize there were so many bikes constructed as such. I've never seen the Allez, Alan, Giant, or Univega
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Old 11-17-10, 12:50 AM   #16
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How were the early Specialized carbon frames?
They are great for flat century ride. It is like riding on magic carpet, but don't climb out of the saddle, the rear tire will rub the chain stays. I run 10 speed Ultegra on mine and it weights less then 20lbs.
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Old 11-17-10, 03:56 AM   #17
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They are great for flat century ride. It is like riding on magic carpet, but don't climb out of the saddle, the rear tire will rub the chain stays. I run 10 speed Ultegra on mine and it weights less then 20lbs.
Just go as small a frame you can ride with these classic CF frames and you will most likely have enough stiffness that you will need for most situations.
I went two number sizes below what my Peugeot PSV is with the Carbone 7 and the Carbone ended up actually much stiffer riding than the PSV.
The PSV rubs it's front derailleur since I got it in 84, while the Carbone is totally quiet in climbs and sprints.

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Old 11-17-10, 04:34 AM   #18
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1975 is about right for the Graftek. I don't remember the exact year without checking but it was mid-1970s. Graftek (pre-Exxon) and Mossberg both hit the street about the same time. I don't remember which but one, maybe both, was manufactured by Hercules.

In the late 1980s, carbon fibre was one of the next the next big things (along with aluminum and titanium) and most big names offered one. Notable names not yet mentioned include the Centurion Ironman Carbon, Miyata CarbonTechs, Nishiki Carbon (Alan) and the first monocogue, the 1987 Kestrel 4000.

People can say all the negative things they want about carbon moncoques but it's the only media that truly gives the designer free reign to create their vision of the perfect bicycle. Standard tubes and lugs always compromised that vision.
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Old 11-17-10, 08:33 AM   #19
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People can say all the negative things they want about carbon moncoques but it's the only media that truly gives the designer free reign to create their vision of the perfect bicycle. Standard tubes and lugs always compromised that vision.
I agree with this. Clearly, the engineers saw the promise of carbon fiber but were constrained in their minds by tradition frame design which used tubes and joints. We now see that a monocoque is right the right design if carbon fiber is a given.
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Old 11-17-10, 09:20 AM   #20
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Let's throw in the Mossberg Graphite frame just for the heck of it too.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...6&d=1133389053
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Old 11-17-10, 11:51 AM   #21
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'75 wasnt it? I thought they had a reputation for breaking or cracking or both!
+1 1975. John Howard rode one.

Kestrel was sort of the "breakthrough" on 1-piecers, like T-Mar says. They still offer a lot of bike for the bread.

Schwinn had a "PDG" that was CF, the 9C, but it was basically a rebadged Kestrel 200, I think, circa 1992.

There were also the experiments early on with phat BB shells, like the Kestrel Air Foil, the Trek Y-Foil, and some other radical-looking designs.
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Old 11-17-10, 11:58 AM   #22
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So how safe would you feel riding a 25 or 30 year old Carbon bike?

Are there safety concerns with old CF?
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Old 11-17-10, 12:17 PM   #23
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1993 Miyata Team Carbon


1988 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman


Not so retro, but an important "link" in the chain of CF going back, the Trek Y-Foil...
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Old 11-17-10, 12:18 PM   #24
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I must say that I am mildly surprised by the high level of civility, interest, and knowledge expressed in this thread. It makes sense if you view the C&V avocation as a dynamic historical process rather than a specific time period or technology/material.

Do I sense that it may be time to start a "Show Us Your C&Vish Carbon Bikes" thread?

Robbie, why don't you take those three pics and start the thread. I'll post two more pics right behind.
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Old 11-17-10, 12:19 PM   #25
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So how safe would you feel riding a 25 or 30 year old Carbon bike?

Are there safety concerns with old CF?
Some people say so. I have no problems absolutely hammering my present '88 for 50-75 miles.
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