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Old 11-16-10, 04:23 PM   #1
calderp
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Restoring Campy NR/Record? Resale value?

I just got my hands on a sweet 1974 Motobecane Le Champion, equipped with full (well, everything except the brake levers+calipers) Campy. As far as I can tell, it's Nuovo Record Derailleurs, Record Strada crankset, Record hubs, and the BB/HS/Pedals/seatpost would also be Record? They're definitely campy, but I don't know campy IDs, I'm just assuming that it would be a matching gruppo. The components have light to middling levels of wear/rust and the frame is unfortunately a little worse with paint chips, some scratches, and some rust spots, although still not bad. The bike has been hanging in a barn for 20 years, but I could have literally just pumped the tires and ridden off!

Anyway, I have a few questions and I wanted to write out my restoration plans so that someone could stop me in advance if I'm about to do something drastically stupid!

First, the questions:
Is that stem campy? I haven't pulled it out yet, but was guessing the CB stands for Campagnolo Brev?


What do people think about overall restorability of the parts? I feel guilty admitting it, but I'm considering ebaying the whole gruppo because as much as I would like to keep it, I just finished college and am totally broke so the money is more important at the moment! I've seen comparable gruppos in better condition go for $500+, but I'm not sure whether I could get these back into good enough condition to make them worth selling. Otherwise, I might make a long project out of trying a complete restore. Did a similar restore on a Gitane Super-Corsa a while back and was amazed at how well it turned out!

And my restore plans/questions:

Frame+fork (sorry, forgot to do a full bike photo, you can see what I mean about paint+rust in the shifters photo) I figure I'll give these a day in oxalic acid and see what happens. Mechanically they're in great shape, but plenty of little rust spots and paint scrapes.

Hubs/Seatpost/Shifters/Crankset: Not sure what to do with these, they're in pretty decent shape. Do you guys have tricks for buffing up AL? I've never bothered before.






BB/HS: Simple! Oxalic Acid for these guys. Probably will do the whole frame/fork with headset installed but fork removed and just dismantle the BB.
(forgot to photo, sorry)

Pedals: Are these all steel, or just the cages? I don't want the oxalic acid messing up any AL, or getting into the bearings. Actually, it just occurred to me I could maybe take just the cages off for a soak? Is that possible, or would I need to dismantle the whole pedal? And one more: thing, if I do dismantle the whole pedal, do I need any special tools, or are they like any other pedal with spindle and bearings?

Deraillers: Seems like RD is mostly AL and FD all steel? So just a clean for the RD and a soak for the FD? If the FD has some AL, will the oxalic acid really hurt it?


Ok, I think that's everything? Any ideas/tips would be great! This is the first time I've gotten my hands on an (almost) fully campy-equipped bike, and it's pretty exciting so I think it's worth really tearing it down and trying to get everything nice and shiny again, which is something I very rarely bother to do...

Thanks!

Ed: Are the pics showing up in the post, or only as attachments? Having some trouble with em...
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Last edited by calderp; 11-16-10 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 11-16-10, 04:54 PM   #2
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Hi there, nice find.

Campagnolo didn't make Stems - it's a British GB stem (Geoff Burgess - I think it's Geoff, could be Gary?) . The company now make furniture, but for decades made stems, handlebars, brakes, toeclips and so on.

Se Khatfull's posts for how to wet sand and polish that alloy up like chrome, just takes a lot of effort!

Up to you what you do with the parts, I'd keep them all together but they belong to you, so your decision. I think you'd pay a lot more than you'll get for them trying to "re-collect" them in the future - and I speak from experience there!

You'll need to remove the headset and BB bearings before Oxalic acid bathing them, the OA will dissolve the grease inside and damage the balls, although if you soak the other parts they will come up like new.

Don't see much of a problem with the frame, but OA will do it no harm.

Photos show fine!
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Old 11-16-10, 05:04 PM   #3
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That gear will clean up just fine. The pedals are a bit rough (pretty bad) but will also clean up nicely but you'll have to oil them religiously to keep them looking thatway.
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Old 11-16-10, 05:15 PM   #4
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Honestly, your Nuovo Record / Record group appears to be in remarquable condition and would polish nicely. Don't try to polish the crankset or rear derailleur, they're anodized and you'll just mess up the finish. Dish soap and a thooth brush is great to remove the dirt and old grease. Finally, I'm not sure why you'd want to soak the rear derailleur in OA since there is no rust on it...
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Old 11-16-10, 05:17 PM   #5
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GB = Gerry Burgess. Pretty surprising to see that English stem in a French bike, particularly given that French stems are 0.2mm narrower. Have you tried to remove it?

Neal
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Old 11-16-10, 05:52 PM   #6
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Oh ya, that is a GB, not CB isn't it. Interesting. I'll try and pull it out and see what happens, maybe it's shimmed or something. I finally found the 1974/5 motobecane catalouges here (http://www.velobase.com/Resource_Too...alogScans.aspx) and it looks like it's a 1975 with everything original except the stem, which would have been a Philippe, and the saddle, which should have been an Ideale, but instead is some cheapo plastic (grrrr....)

The dish soap and toothbrush idea is great. thanks for pointing out the simple solution, when I was trying to make things overly complicated. As for the derailler, I wasn't very clear but I meant to say I would soak the FD in oxalic acid because it appears to be steel (at least the cage is). But on second thought it would make more sense to just get out the bartender's friend or some oil and put some elbow grease into it...

I'll let you folks know how pulling the stem goes...
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Old 11-16-10, 06:08 PM   #7
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Motobecane and Raleigh are big sellers on ebay. I'd try to sell it as a whole bike first. If it doesnt sell, the next best way is selling parts seperately. Used Groupos dont get as much money. French BB's and HS's are always big sellers.
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Old 11-16-10, 07:08 PM   #8
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As others have mentioned, it's your bike, but I would vote to keep it together. This was Motobecane's top model from almost 40 years ago and everything is stock! If there's nothing wrong with the frame it seems like a shame to part it out.

As for cleaning stuff up, steel wool (or brass wool) works great on old chrome and it would probably help out a lot on surface rust like on those pedals without resorting to liquid/acid cleaners that might affect the bearing grease. From what I can see, the headset doesn't even look bad so I would go easy on the oxalic acid and try some other methods first.

Any overall pictures of the bike or a good story on how you scored this one?
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Old 11-16-10, 07:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
GB = Gerry Burgess. Pretty surprising to see that English stem in a French bike, particularly given that French stems are 0.2mm narrower. Have you tried to remove it?

Neal
Yep, someone ground the stem down by .2mm. Actually did a pretty good job of it too.
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Old 11-16-10, 07:24 PM   #10
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Yep, someone ground the stem down by .2mm. Actually did a pretty good job of it too.
That's much better than if someone jammed a too-large stem into the steerer!

Neal
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Old 11-16-10, 08:39 PM   #11
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I believe the '74 Le Champion came equipped with a ttt record stem and bar. Universal Mod 61 brakes are original equipment for that year. The pedals are Campy Record (steel cage).
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Old 11-16-10, 08:55 PM   #12
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I would soak the FD in oxalic acid because it appears to be steel (at least the cage is). But on second thought it would make more sense to just get out the bartender's friend or some oil and put some elbow grease into it...
The rest of the FD is aluminum, which you don't want to soak in OA. Same goes for the pedals. I've found WD-40 + copper or 0000 steel wool does a pretty good job of clearing some of the ugliest corrosion on chromed steel.
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Old 11-16-10, 10:22 PM   #13
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The rest of the FD is aluminum, which you don't want to soak in OA. Same goes for the pedals. I've found WD-40 + copper or 0000 steel wool does a pretty good job of clearing some of the ugliest corrosion on chromed steel.
I have had good luck coating the pedal body with grease and soaking it in OA. Much easier to wipe off the grease later, and no risk of scratching the chrome.
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Old 11-17-10, 06:37 PM   #14
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As others have mentioned, it's your bike, but I would vote to keep it together. This was Motobecane's top model from almost 40 years ago and everything is stock! If there's nothing wrong with the frame it seems like a shame to part it out.

As for cleaning stuff up, steel wool (or brass wool) works great on old chrome and it would probably help out a lot on surface rust like on those pedals without resorting to liquid/acid cleaners that might affect the bearing grease. From what I can see, the headset doesn't even look bad so I would go easy on the oxalic acid and try some other methods first.

Any overall pictures of the bike or a good story on how you scored this one?
******* Pardon me, but ...the Team Champion was the top model for Motobecane during this era. I agree with you on the acid. 3/0 and 4/0 steel wool and lots of elbow grease is the way to go in my opinion. Good old Campy chrome was great stuff and usually cleans up very well if not pitted too deeply. Nice bike!
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Old 11-17-10, 07:27 PM   #15
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******* Pardon me, but ...the Team Champion was the top model for Motobecane during this era. I agree with you on the acid. 3/0 and 4/0 steel wool and lots of elbow grease is the way to go in my opinion. Good old Campy chrome was great stuff and usually cleans up very well if not pitted too deeply. Nice bike!
Ah, my bad, you are correct sir! I wasn't sure if they made that model every year. The Grand Records are more my style anyways, but I guess I'm biased
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Old 11-18-10, 11:10 AM   #16
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Ok, an update!

First off, it's looking even better than I expected it could, minus a couple little mishaps. I think you all are right about not parting it out, I don't think I could bring myself to do that now that things are looking so nice.



So far what I've done is take apart just about everything that will come apart (in the process busting my RD spring when trying to put it back together the wrong way.. oops.) and soak all the steel bits in oxalic acid for the past day.5, as well as soaking the frame and fork. I didn't mess with soaking that FD but I did take metinuz's tip about coating the pedal body in grease before OA. Worked like a charm. The pedals are the worst of the bunch, but I was really surprised how well they turned out. That campy chrome is thick!

Unfortunately, the Motobecane chrome is not so hot... The fork is the only thing chromed on the frame, and I've had a lot of trouble with it. First off, after a soak of maybe 6 hours in OA (7T to 10gal water. too strong?) I ended up with little white spots all over the chrome that won't come out:
(the peeling stuff is the clearcoat coming off)
If I try to rub them out, I go straight through the chrome. I've done OA on a few half and fully-chromed frame/forks before and never seen these. Has anyone else had these before? Am I stuck with them?
So after I saw those I pulled the fork out of the OA, but it was still a bit rusty. When I tried to get the rust off by hand (PB blaster and Barkeeper's Friend applied with a toothbrush) I started to rub right through the chrome. It's really a pretty crap chrome job. Now I'm not sure what to do. This pic shows the rust, the rubbed through bits, the white spots, and the little bit of clear coat which is peeling off.


Luckily the fork doesn't look nearly as bad overall as the pics make it seem, but it's still the grubbiest part.

I've also been having a little trouble with the frame which has been in OA for over 24 hours now. I coated the HS in grease to protect it and there's no other chrome, but the surface rust where the paint is gone just doesn't want to come off, not sure why. I'm afraid to rub it with anything, for fear of messing up the paint even more.


Also, I've been thinking about how to touch the frame up when I get the rust off. Seems like nail polish is the way to go, but I think it's going to be hard to find a metallic light purple... Has anyone dealt with this Moto paint before? Any recommendations?

Thanks again for all the help!
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Last edited by calderp; 11-18-10 at 11:22 AM. Reason: pics!
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Old 11-18-10, 12:05 PM   #17
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Unfortunately, the Motobecane chrome is not so hot... The fork is the only thing chromed on the frame, and I've had a lot of trouble with it. First off, after a soak of maybe 6 hours in OA (7T to 10gal water. too strong?) I ended up with little white spots all over the chrome that won't come out:
(the peeling stuff is the clearcoat coming off)
If I try to rub them out, I go straight through the chrome. I've done OA on a few half and fully-chromed frame/forks before and never seen these. Has anyone else had these before? Am I stuck with them?
So after I saw those I pulled the fork out of the OA, but it was still a bit rusty. When I tried to get the rust off by hand (PB blaster and Barkeeper's Friend applied with a toothbrush) I started to rub right through the chrome. It's really a pretty crap chrome job. Now I'm not sure what to do. This pic shows the rust, the rubbed through bits, the white spots, and the little bit of clear coat which is peeling off.
I could be wrong but it looks like in that photo there is a big spot of bare steel, then some chrome, then some chrome with clearcoat.

Was the bare steel showing like that before the OA?
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Old 11-18-10, 12:56 PM   #18
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Grit blast and repaint the frame.

That fork looks bent.

Last edited by Mike Mills; 11-18-10 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 11-18-10, 01:48 PM   #19
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I could be wrong but it looks like in that photo there is a big spot of bare steel, then some chrome, then some chrome with clearcoat.

Was the bare steel showing like that before the OA?
Nah, that's just the camera. What looks like bare steel is chrome with the clearcoat over it. What looks like clean chrome is the chrome that had the clearcoat over it when it went into the OA, and then got clearcoat rubbed off after it came out, so didn't get the white spots. The white spotted bits are chrome that already lost the clearcoat before it went in the OA.

Oh, and the fork is fine, just a funny camera angle.
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Old 11-18-10, 01:58 PM   #20
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Nah, that's just the camera. What looks like bare steel is chrome with the clearcoat over it. What looks like clean chrome is the chrome that had the clearcoat over it when it went into the OA, and then got clearcoat rubbed off after it came out, so didn't get the white spots. The white spotted bits are chrome that already lost the clearcoat before it went in the OA.

Oh, and the fork is fine, just a funny camera angle.
Oops!, I forgot the smiley. Still, I swear those fork blades look bent.
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Old 11-18-10, 04:11 PM   #21
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no hard feelings.
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