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Old 11-17-10, 07:21 PM   #1
khatfull
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Rim, rim (eBay)...rim, rim, (co-op), and khatfull's weight loss plan!

I hope I sucked you in with my title

In another thread I asked about some vintage tubular rims. My plan for my Fuji Opus IV was an everyday set of clinchers and a nice set of tubulars for "occasions". Figured I'd start with the tubulars first since I thought I'd find them harder to find. Anyway, browsing eBay right after I posted that thread I came across a pair of Wolber TX Profil 32H, clincher, NOS rims from Ben's Cycle. The price was very right, the rims period correct so I pulled the trigger. They arrived today (wow, fast, less than 48 hours later)...here they are:




I'm not sure how I feel about the "WOLBER" in big white letters... More about these rims down below.

I was at one of the co-ops this past Saturday and a pair of rims caught my eye...silver, tubular, 32H. Nice I said. I wanted to do some research first so I did....and promptly went back when they opened for open shop this afternoon at 3:00. They are Saavedra Turbo Aerodinamica...SUPER, very SUPER light rims. Drilled 32H as well...I simply had to have them. Note the price tag in the first pic:




Yes, $15 for the pair. They're NOS, never laced with a VERY minimum of shopwear. The wild part about these rims...even with that aero profile they weigh exactly 284g each on my digital scale. The Wolber rims weigh 486g on the same scale!

Just feeling the rims by hand they're MUCH stiffer than a GEL280 they had there, just compressing the rims slightly on the floor. The Saavedra rims were NOTICEABLY less easy to deflect, perhaps due to the deeper aero cross section.

I'm guessing these rims will build a very light wheelset:

2 x 284g rims.
1 x ~450g hubset. (Unless I go modern hubs and get something really light)
1 x ~350g for 64 DT revolution spokes in 292mm or so. (Which i can afford to get since I got the rims for so little).
1 x 20g for 64 DT alloy nipples.
(I'll probably use nipple/rim washers as well, very little weight.)

So I'm looking at sub 1400g for a 32H wheelset. With even inexpensive tubulars these will be sub 2000g with tires. With good tubbies, maybe around 1800g.

Amazing.

The hubs on both of these wheelsets will need to accomodate Shimano 9 speed as the group on this bike will be a mint DA7700 group (with downtube shifters) I acquired from another member. There are sub 300g hubsets advertised on eBay for somewhat reasonable money, I might have to check some of them out. The Wolbers will be getting an Ultegra 6500 rear and hopefully a 6500 front.

And therein lies the "khatfull's weight loss plan" of this deal. If I expect to build and ride these things, old khatfull is going to have to drop some ballast. Being 32H they may be a little better. I don't think I'll worry about the Wolbers

Anyway...now I have to be on the lookout for hubs/hubsets....time to setup some saved searches

Hope you enjoyed...
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Old 11-17-10, 07:52 PM   #2
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Your 400 gram weight savings will almost make up for that ridiculous Garmin and bronze bell I know you're going to install.

Okay, I'm just bitter and jealous. Congrats on an extremely nice find. Guess who you'll be building a wheelset for soon? I will pay you in allowing you to live vicariously through me. Deal?

-Collin-
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Old 11-17-10, 08:01 PM   #3
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Weight weenie ...


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Old 11-17-10, 08:05 PM   #4
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Your 400 gram weight savings will almost make up for that ridiculous Garmin and bronze bell I know you're going to install. Okay, I'm just bitter and jealous. Congrats on an extremely nice find. Guess who you'll be building a wheelset for soon? I will pay you in allowing you to live vicariously through me. Deal? -Collin-
You have plenty *I* can be bitter and jeaous about...and decorum prevents me from discussing it here So, touche'

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Weight weenie ... Scott
For $15 can you blame me? It has to happen...
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Old 11-17-10, 08:22 PM   #5
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the bike should be a pretty amazing ride.
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Old 11-17-10, 09:01 PM   #6
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Great finds Keith...Ben's often has some good deals and their shipping is always fast.

One thing...I would use brass nips, the weight penalty is minimal and I assume those rims aren't eyeleted...will make for a stronger more reliable wheelset.
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Old 11-17-10, 09:05 PM   #7
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Great finds Keith...Ben's often has some good deals and their shipping is always fast.

One thing...I would use brass nips, the weight penalty is minimal and I assume those rims aren't eyeleted...will make for a stronger more reliable wheelset.
Agreed, I had planned to use the thin aero shaped washers from Sapim, figured those and alloy nips would be the same weight as brass yet provide a lot better bearing surface?

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...item_id=SA-NWS

Whatcha think?
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Old 11-17-10, 09:20 PM   #8
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Get some Sapim xray spokes (extra light) for those Saavedraas, too.
Yeah, one could go crazy and make that wheelset REALLY light if you tried....if I strayed from vintage hubs no telling what they could be build as? < 1000g?

I'm not a weight weenie really but it sure is fun to think about a wheelset lighter than many front wheels

EDIT: Ah, the CX-Ray are bladed but fit standard flange holes....neato. 278g for 64x264mm, the DT Revolutions are 283g same specs.

Last edited by khatfull; 11-17-10 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 11-17-10, 09:30 PM   #9
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Wow! Nice find! You're going to be bringing that down when we car pool for next years C&V Chicago Ride, right?




On a side note, I think I've decided to just bite the bullet and blindly dive into tubulars for my first wheel build. Feel free to keep an eye out for another pair of those rims, or something similar. You always seem to find Much better deals than me.
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Old 11-17-10, 09:43 PM   #10
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That's a badass rimset dude. Makes the weenie part of me want to run tubies.
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Old 11-17-10, 10:35 PM   #11
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i dig the white letters


i have set of NOS 28h campagnolo tubular rims i am going to build up for my tommasini. the original plan was to save them for "occasions" like you plan but they way its looking my clincher rims will end up on my girlfriend's centurion that i bought off robbie. i guess in all honesty, the entire tommasini is sort of an "occasion" ride, but it did take preference over my aluminum bike this year.

edit:

i forgot. i would recommend "normal" db spokes on the drive side.
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Old 11-17-10, 11:05 PM   #12
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+1...DT Comps on the DS and Revs on the NDS + front...or...C-X Rays if you feel like spending 3x the $$$.

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edit:

i forgot. i would recommend "normal" db spokes on the drive side.
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Old 11-17-10, 11:27 PM   #13
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Very cool! I just built a new wheelset for my Colnago, but overbuilt it. The wheelset is quite stout, but nearly offsets all my light parts! Upgraditis ensues...
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Old 11-17-10, 11:38 PM   #14
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are you a skilled builder? mine are going to be my first set...

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Very cool! I just built a new wheelset for my Colnago, but overbuilt it. The wheelset is quite stout, but nearly offsets all my light parts! Upgraditis ensues...
last year i had a set build for me that were "overbuilt" but now they are on a cyclocross frame. the only regret was aluminum nipples (they seemed too cheap to pass up) funny how things work.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:40 AM   #15
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Keith, you are going to have some fantastic wheels! Nice score on the rims. Never heard of Saavedra...or any bicycle parts manufacturer from Argentina, for that matter. I hope you enjoy your tubulars. I know you will. I am certain you will feel the road as never before and relish in the craft of maintaining tubulars.

But I have just decided to henceforth cease proselytizing to the clincher crowd. The market for tubulars is pretty erratic and there is a reason: demand for vintage rims has waned. Why else do you see bundles of them practically given away at swap meets or handed out at bike shops for the cost of new Pearl Isumi socks? Rims being one of the parts most susceptible to damage, I fear a resurgence in the interest tubulars may drain the the supply of nice vintage tubular wheels/rims--and posts such as this are not helping in the least. I better get myself a stash before you start splashing around photos of the wheels.
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Old 11-18-10, 05:07 AM   #16
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If money is no object, I'd run these:

Front at 112g:



Rear at 264g:



Then add these at 44g:



Of course I love to spend other people's money!
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Old 11-18-10, 12:08 PM   #17
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are you a skilled builder? mine are going to be my first set...



last year i had a set build for me that were "overbuilt" but now they are on a cyclocross frame. the only regret was aluminum nipples (they seemed too cheap to pass up) funny how things work.
The funny thing about my new wheels, is that are so well built that they don't feel heavy at all when riding. On the contrary, the new wheels are so stiff that they make bike feel very smooth. It rolls so easy on the flats. Like riding on glass.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:14 PM   #18
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Keith, you are going to have some fantastic wheels! Nice score on the rims. Never heard of Saavedra...or any bicycle parts manufacturer from Argentina, for that matter. I hope you enjoy your tubulars. I know you will. I am certain you will feel the road as never before and relish in the craft of maintaining tubulars.

But I have just decided to henceforth cease proselytizing to the clincher crowd. The market for tubulars is pretty erratic and there is a reason: demand for vintage rims has waned. Why else do you see bundles of them practically given away at swap meets or handed out at bike shops for the cost of new Pearl Isumi socks? Rims being one of the parts most susceptible to damage, I fear a resurgence in the interest tubulars may drain the the supply of nice vintage tubular wheels/rims--and posts such as this are not helping in the least. I better get myself a stash before you start splashing around photos of the wheels.
Yeah, watch out. I have seriously been considering grabbing some old tubular rims of my own for a weight weenie race wheelset. I'm feeling a little a ashamed that I recently sold a nice mavic tubular set that was so light. To those of you considering a trip to the WW dark side, do it. Light stuff rocks.
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Old 11-18-10, 12:15 PM   #19
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The funny thing about my new wheels, is that are so well built that they don't feel heavy at all when riding. On the contrary, the new wheels are so stiff that they make bike feel very smooth. It rolls so easy on the flats. Like riding on glass.
Being a total newbie, I don't quite understand this. Obviously you want your wheels to be stiff and strong, but wouldn't that make them more harsh too, not smoother? Like you'd feel every little bump in the road, and the medium/large feel a lot harsher?
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Old 11-18-10, 12:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
Keith, you are going to have some fantastic wheels! Nice score on the rims. Never heard of Saavedra...or any bicycle parts manufacturer from Argentina, for that matter. I hope you enjoy your tubulars. I know you will. I am certain you will feel the road as never before and relish in the craft of maintaining tubulars.

But I have just decided to henceforth cease proselytizing to the clincher crowd. The market for tubulars is pretty erratic and there is a reason: demand for vintage rims has waned. Why else do you see bundles of them practically given away at swap meets or handed out at bike shops for the cost of new Pearl Isumi socks? Rims being one of the parts most susceptible to damage, I fear a resurgence in the interest tubulars may drain the the supply of nice vintage tubular wheels/rims--and posts such as this are not helping in the least. I better get myself a stash before you start splashing around photos of the wheels.
I agree with your assesment on the present "flash" resurgence of tubular wheels/tires. There was a time I didn't even see a single tubular tire being sold at the local PBS, and now they have multiple sets for sale on their shelves lately.
I'm not so worried myself though as I think I am well set to deal with the next few years with my the third tubular wheelset I will be building this year for myself, and if I spot another good deal for a nice pair of rims, I will not hesitate grab them asap and build a fifth set for my tubular wheel stash!

Chombi
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Old 11-18-10, 02:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
Yeah, watch out. I have seriously been considering grabbing some old tubular rims of my own for a weight weenie race wheelset. I'm feeling a little a ashamed that I recently sold a nice mavic tubular set that was so light. To those of you considering a trip to the WW dark side, do it. Light stuff rocks.
I agree. Although I sold my modern Cannondale last week there was something about riding that 17 pound aluminum bike. I like the feel of steel better for longer rides but there's no denying that for shorter fast rides it was a rocket ship, no doubt. When I saw these Saavedra rims at the co-op I couldn't believe the weight for the profile. Turned the price tag and knew that unless I found they were exploding rims or something I had to have them. $15 Man I love the fact that we have so many nice co-ops/used shops and that they all seem to be on the way to and from my clients

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Being a total newbie, I don't quite understand this. Obviously you want your wheels to be stiff and strong, but wouldn't that make them more harsh too, not smoother? Like you'd feel every little bump in the road, and the medium/large feel a lot harsher?
I think there's a balance between stiff enough to not be flexy but not so stiff as to feel like you're riding on a granite disc wheel. It's possible to build wheels both ways. That's why I was so glad to see that these light rims were 32H...I think they'll build strong enough with 32 spokes, yet be light if built with the right spokes. All I know is that either way, it's gonna be fun. And to whomever suggested the Sapim CX-Rays...I paid so little for the rims would I be remiss in not using the CX-Rays in the build?
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Old 01-11-11, 12:17 PM   #22
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Updates? Updates!!

I want those rims.

Last edited by stien; 01-11-11 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 01-11-11, 12:53 PM   #23
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Odd, I don't remember this thread. Those Saavedra Turbo Aerodinamicas look very much like the Arayas that I have been chasing. Nice find!

Matt
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Old 01-11-11, 01:32 PM   #24
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I forgot about this thread too. So what have you done with these, khatfull??? You're watching out for a set of light rims for your best BF.net buddy a couple hours south, right...
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Old 01-11-11, 01:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
I hope I sucked you in with my title

In another thread I asked about some vintage tubular rims. My plan for my Fuji Opus IV was an everyday set of clinchers and a nice set of tubulars for "occasions". Figured I'd start with the tubulars first since I thought I'd find them harder to find. Anyway, browsing eBay right after I posted that thread I came across a pair of Wolber TX Profil 32H, clincher, NOS rims from Ben's Cycle. The price was very right, the rims period correct so I pulled the trigger. They arrived today (wow, fast, less than 48 hours later)...here they are:




I'm not sure how I feel about the "WOLBER" in big white letters... More about these rims down below.

I was at one of the co-ops this past Saturday and a pair of rims caught my eye...silver, tubular, 32H. Nice I said. I wanted to do some research first so I did....and promptly went back when they opened for open shop this afternoon at 3:00. They are Saavedra Turbo Aerodinamica...SUPER, very SUPER light rims. Drilled 32H as well...I simply had to have them. Note the price tag in the first pic:




Yes, $15 for the pair. They're NOS, never laced with a VERY minimum of shopwear. The wild part about these rims...even with that aero profile they weigh exactly 284g each on my digital scale. The Wolber rims weigh 486g on the same scale!

Just feeling the rims by hand they're MUCH stiffer than a GEL280 they had there, just compressing the rims slightly on the floor. The Saavedra rims were NOTICEABLY less easy to deflect, perhaps due to the deeper aero cross section.

I'm guessing these rims will build a very light wheelset:

2 x 284g rims.
1 x ~450g hubset. (Unless I go modern hubs and get something really light)
1 x ~350g for 64 DT revolution spokes in 292mm or so. (Which i can afford to get since I got the rims for so little).
1 x 20g for 64 DT alloy nipples.
(I'll probably use nipple/rim washers as well, very little weight.)

So I'm looking at sub 1400g for a 32H wheelset. With even inexpensive tubulars these will be sub 2000g with tires. With good tubbies, maybe around 1800g.

Amazing.

The hubs on both of these wheelsets will need to accomodate Shimano 9 speed as the group on this bike will be a mint DA7700 group (with downtube shifters) I acquired from another member. There are sub 300g hubsets advertised on eBay for somewhat reasonable money, I might have to check some of them out. The Wolbers will be getting an Ultegra 6500 rear and hopefully a 6500 front.

And therein lies the "khatfull's weight loss plan" of this deal. If I expect to build and ride these things, old khatfull is going to have to drop some ballast. Being 32H they may be a little better. I don't think I'll worry about the Wolbers

Anyway...now I have to be on the lookout for hubs/hubsets....time to setup some saved searches

Hope you enjoyed...
Very nice, I would say, stuff the super light idea, get the same hubs for both, use the same spokes, dish and cassette, set them up so that the cassettes are perfectly lined up, so you can just pop one set off and the other on, without needing to do stupid stuff like readjust the transmission to change wheels.
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