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Old 11-18-10, 06:54 PM   #1
daisy101
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how to tell if my Raleigh DL 1 Tourist is 100% Raleigh

I have some questions about a recent Raleigh DL -1 Tourist purchase. (1978 according to the hub)

I purchased two bikes: a lady's and a men's.

I purchased these bikes from someone who had a large collection of vintage bikes and someone who told me he often bikes in and brings back components from England.


I notice that the fenders of both bikes do not have the cream on the back. Is this normal?
The fenders on the men's bike do not match the sheen of the body of the bike. The fenders have rust and wear; the body is shiny
The body has a head badge; but not the gold raleigh lettering. The seller told me he removed the lettering because he did not like the 70s font (the lettering is intact on the lady's bike)
Today when we were riding, the men's seat post kept twisting and sinking despite being tightly fastened. (I did not have the same problem with my bike)
The men's bike has a full chain case which the seller told me he bought back from England. There are no identifying marks on the chain case, but it fits the frame (the frame without the Raleigh gold lettering) very well. I paid a premium for a bike with the chain case.

Could it be that some of the parts are not Raleigh? I understand that Raleigh and Yellow Jersey parts are not always interchangeable (for instance a Yellow Jersey chaincase most likely will be a bit too long for a Raleigh)

I also understand the components produced by Yellow Jersey may not have the same precision/tolerances as a Raleigh. Could this be why the seat post won't hold tight?

It seems a litmus test would be to see if the chain case off the men's bike would fit my lady's bike (the bike with the gold lettering intact)

What do you think? Do I have a frankenstein?
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Old 11-18-10, 07:10 PM   #2
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The all black fenders were used on US market bikes in the late 70s as there is no law here that says the fenders have to be white tipped. It's also possible that the fenders were painted in a different factory and have a different quality of paint on them. The fenders on mine aren't nearly as nice as the frame. It also seams that the fenders catch more sun and rain than frames.
If the chaincase fits and you can't tell the difference, then don't worry about it. Towards the end, Raleigh had factories all over the world and even a true Raleigh part could have come from Malaysia.
Have you tried trading the seatposts between frames? Then you'd at least know if the trouble was with the frame or the post. Posts are available for cheap if it is the wrong one.
I removed that 70s lettering from mine too, but it left a little shadow where the paint wasn't as faded. I suppose I could have gotten it all the way out but the thing is a bit of a beater and my attention span was fading fast. Check for serial numbers on or near the seat lug. I don't know where the Asian replica bikes have their serial numbers.
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Old 11-18-10, 07:28 PM   #3
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OK: I feel a little bit better now. I am totally new to this (but learning quickly, thanks to all of you on this forum!) I will do as you suggest!

I look forward to other comments!




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Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin View Post
The all black fenders were used on US market bikes in the late 70s as there is no law here that says the fenders have to be white tipped. It's also possible that the fenders were painted in a different factory and have a different quality of paint on them. The fenders on mine aren't nearly as nice as the frame. It also seams that the fenders catch more sun and rain than frames.
If the chaincase fits and you can't tell the difference, then don't worry about it. Towards the end, Raleigh had factories all over the world and even a true Raleigh part could have come from Malaysia.
Have you tried trading the seatposts between frames? Then you'd at least know if the trouble was with the frame or the post. Posts are available for cheap if it is the wrong one.
I removed that 70s lettering from mine too, but it left a little shadow where the paint wasn't as faded. I suppose I could have gotten it all the way out but the thing is a bit of a beater and my attention span was fading fast. Check for serial numbers on or near the seat lug. I don't know where the Asian replica bikes have their serial numbers.
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Old 11-18-10, 10:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy101 View Post
I have some questions about a recent Raleigh DL -1 Tourist purchase. (1978 according to the hub)

I purchased two bikes: a lady's and a men's.

I purchased these bikes from someone who had a large collection of vintage bikes and someone who told me he often bikes in and brings back components from England.


I notice that the fenders of both bikes do not have the cream on the back. Is this normal?
The fenders on the men's bike do not match the sheen of the body of the bike. The fenders have rust and wear; the body is shiny
The body has a head badge; but not the gold raleigh lettering. The seller told me he removed the lettering because he did not like the 70s font (the lettering is intact on the lady's bike)
Today when we were riding, the men's seat post kept twisting and sinking despite being tightly fastened. (I did not have the same problem with my bike)
The men's bike has a full chain case which the seller told me he bought back from England. There are no identifying marks on the chain case, but it fits the frame (the frame without the Raleigh gold lettering) very well. I paid a premium for a bike with the chain case.

Could it be that some of the parts are not Raleigh? I understand that Raleigh and Yellow Jersey parts are not always interchangeable (for instance a Yellow Jersey chaincase most likely will be a bit too long for a Raleigh)

I also understand the components produced by Yellow Jersey may not have the same precision/tolerances as a Raleigh. Could this be why the seat post won't hold tight?

It seems a litmus test would be to see if the chain case off the men's bike would fit my lady's bike (the bike with the gold lettering intact)

What do you think? Do I have a frankenstein?
Hard to say about the frankenstein, but before you try to swap the chaincases, measure both chainstay lengths. If they don't match, the chaincases might not swap, Raleigh or not.
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Old 11-19-10, 03:11 AM   #5
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I have the same issue with the fenders on my DL-1. They were very rusty compared to the frame, but are definitely original to the bike... something about them just likes to rust. You can buy the Raleigh decals on ebay from "Cyclomondo". I have purchased decals from him in the past and the quality is very good.

The funny thing is, I prefer the late 70s decals over the early ones. I don't like the gold foil stripes on the early 70's models.
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Old 11-19-10, 05:05 PM   #6
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the fenders on my DL-1 are pretty trashed (bent and rusty) while the frame is in pretty good shape. I was actually considering frankensteining it up by buying some yellow jersey fenders, painting the end white and slapping a new decal on there, and calling it good. to restore properly the originals I don't view as worth the effort or money. That is just me though.

As for the seat post slipping-- I have now purchased 2 second (or third or fourth?) hand bikes that had the wrong sized seat post in them. I vote for swapping with the other post to see if that slips too. Also, the bolt that tightens the seat post is still there, right?
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Old 11-20-10, 12:57 PM   #7
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good idea to swap the seat posts! Thanks. Seems that would have good diagnostic value. Yes, the bolt is still there.

Also a good suggestion about trying some yellow jersey fenders. I was conflicted about taking the old paint off (as i read the posts about paint being original only once!), but storing the original fenders and buying new ones seems to be a happy medium.

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the fenders on my DL-1 are pretty trashed (bent and rusty) while the frame is in pretty good shape. I was actually considering frankensteining it up by buying some yellow jersey fenders, painting the end white and slapping a new decal on there, and calling it good. to restore properly the originals I don't view as worth the effort or money. That is just me though.

As for the seat post slipping-- I have now purchased 2 second (or third or fourth?) hand bikes that had the wrong sized seat post in them. I vote for swapping with the other post to see if that slips too. Also, the bolt that tightens the seat post is still there, right?
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Old 11-20-10, 02:21 PM   #8
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I think that if you can post pictures of the bike(s), we will be able to give you better feedback.

As others have said, removing the 70s lettering sounds believable, as it's considered less attractive and less "vintage-looking" than the lettering on models made before 1973. I will remove the lettering from my 1973 (darn, right on the border!) DL-1 as well when I get around to it.

Re the Yellow Jersey chainguards - they fit fine, I do not find that they are too big. But the quality is not as great, true.

People who collect and mess around with bikes do all kinds of things to them, so there is really no way of knowing. But either way, I would not call a bike with a Yellow Jersey chaincase and the wrong fenders a "frankenbike". That term would be reserved for, say, if the bike had the wrong fork, or if the handlebars & rod brakes switched to a Raleigh Sports set-up. But that's just my take on it.
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Old 11-20-10, 02:37 PM   #9
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Since the decal is already gone you could replace it with any style that you wanted. There are a lot, some stick out in my mind.

There are a couple of script logos:



There is the pre 1973 "university" type font:


And the unpopular (to my surprise) post 73 version.


The post 78 version is my least favorite:
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Old 11-21-10, 12:51 PM   #10
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I agree that some photos will help. I'll post some soon.

I am gaining an appreciation for the subtle changes that the DL-1 went through over the years. (fonts, hubs and triggers, fenders, etc) I can understand some design changes that were due to truly improved technology or materials, but it seems a bit funny to me in retrospect that Raleigh was using a contemporary font on a bike that was celebrated, at least in part, for being a classic. This is a bit of a digression, but yesterday I was listening to NPR to a segment about how people get irritated by watching otherwise historically appropriate movies or TVs shows only to have that certain "magic" destroyed by scenes displaying signs or menus, etc in historically inappropriate fonts!!!!

The Raleigh logo that is still on the Lady's bike is in the font of the post '73 version that mkeller posted. The font looks considerably nicer on a black bike, I must say. I also noticed that the decals were taken off the triggers. Last night, I found some photos of the decal that was most likely used on the 1978 trigger. After seeing the photo (bright colors: was itf orange and yellow?): Yeah, I would have taken it off, too. (Even though the trigger decal seemed shockingly anachronistic in the same way that shag carpeting is, I am sure I'll regret not having the original in a few years!!!! Some things never change.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloria View Post
I think that if you can post pictures of the bike(s), we will be able to give you better feedback.

As others have said, removing the 70s lettering sounds believable, as it's considered less attractive and less "vintage-looking" than the lettering on models made before 1973. I will remove the lettering from my 1973 (darn, right on the border!) DL-1 as well when I get around to it.

Re the Yellow Jersey chainguards - they fit fine, I do not find that they are too big. But the quality is not as great, true.

People who collect and mess around with bikes do all kinds of things to them, so there is really no way of knowing. But either way, I would not call a bike with a Yellow Jersey chaincase and the wrong fenders a "frankenbike". That term would be reserved for, say, if the bike had the wrong fork, or if the handlebars & rod brakes switched to a Raleigh Sports set-up. But that's just my take on it.
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Old 11-21-10, 04:19 PM   #11
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Hey Daisy, I know the trigger sticker that you are talking about and I agree. Before that black plastic cover there were clear ones with a more traditional look. They can be swapped out with one screw, it is very simple. My wife's Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed had one of the black covers and we just removed it completely and it is just blank chrome.
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