Vinegar: 1, Rust Fairy: 0
11-28-10, 08:40 PM
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Vinegar: 1, Rust Fairy: 0
I just spent the day (and I do mean most of the day) cleaning my Shogun's frame of as much rust as I could. I will have to go over it again tomorrow, and I still have the fork to do. The frame was heavily visited by the rust fairy, who sprinkled her rust dust all over everything. I started with rust remover, but it did nothing after half an hour of sitting there. So then I got out the tip of my Swiss Army knife's metal file out and started to poke at the rust. The scale of the job was overwhelming. There was simply no way that was going to work, so I regrouped.
I remembered what Mkeller had said about vinegar working well on rusty chrome, and that he didn't know if it would work on a painted frame. Well, I thought, after looking at the dropouts, how much more paint could I lose, really? So I dabbed on the vinegar and, after waiting a minute or less, started in with the file. Wow! It really worked. No damage at all to the paint. In fact, I found that if I lost paint, it was because the rust had worked its way underneath it. So now I have a lot of bare frame, and almost no rust. I'm sure I've missed some spots.
I then hit the frame with the scratch remover, which polished it up nicely. It's definitely NOT going to be a beauty. In fact, it will someday be an excellent candidate for repainting, if I like it enough. Given the amount of bare metal, the nail polish coating is going to be rather labor intensive as well.
I'm not sure anyone else would want a bike that looks like this, but I like it as a rain bike, run-around bike, etc. Glad I have the pretty Panasonic, though, too. This one is not a looker up close
.
Before the vinegar:
shogunrestore2.6 by snarkypup, on Flickr
After the vinegar and some "filing":
shogunrestore2.4 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Before the vinegar:
shogunrestore2.9 by snarkypup, on Flickr
After the vinegar/filing:
shogunrestore2.8 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Here are some overall pics too:
The Rust Fairy struck, but was defeated on a particularly bad seat stay:
shogunrestore2.19 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Down tube madness:
shogunrestore2.18 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Rear drop-outs. Oh the pain that went into cleaning these!
shogunrestore2.13 by snarkypup, on Flickr
As good as it's going to get, I think:
shogunrestore2.21 by snarkypup, on Flickr
I remembered what Mkeller had said about vinegar working well on rusty chrome, and that he didn't know if it would work on a painted frame. Well, I thought, after looking at the dropouts, how much more paint could I lose, really? So I dabbed on the vinegar and, after waiting a minute or less, started in with the file. Wow! It really worked. No damage at all to the paint. In fact, I found that if I lost paint, it was because the rust had worked its way underneath it. So now I have a lot of bare frame, and almost no rust. I'm sure I've missed some spots.
I then hit the frame with the scratch remover, which polished it up nicely. It's definitely NOT going to be a beauty. In fact, it will someday be an excellent candidate for repainting, if I like it enough. Given the amount of bare metal, the nail polish coating is going to be rather labor intensive as well.
I'm not sure anyone else would want a bike that looks like this, but I like it as a rain bike, run-around bike, etc. Glad I have the pretty Panasonic, though, too. This one is not a looker up close
. Before the vinegar:
shogunrestore2.6 by snarkypup, on Flickr
After the vinegar and some "filing":
shogunrestore2.4 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Before the vinegar:
shogunrestore2.9 by snarkypup, on Flickr
After the vinegar/filing:
shogunrestore2.8 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Here are some overall pics too:
The Rust Fairy struck, but was defeated on a particularly bad seat stay:
shogunrestore2.19 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Down tube madness:
shogunrestore2.18 by snarkypup, on Flickr
Rear drop-outs. Oh the pain that went into cleaning these!
shogunrestore2.13 by snarkypup, on Flickr
As good as it's going to get, I think:
shogunrestore2.21 by snarkypup, on Flickr
11-28-10, 08:47 PM
#2
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The vinegar I know is quite difficult to keep in one place due to it's low viscosity. How did you keep these spots moist? Or are we only talking about a matter of seconds here?
11-28-10, 08:52 PM
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Only a matter of seconds, probably. Maybe a minute, tops. Then, as I filed away at the spots, which would foam up with rust dust as I filed and poked, I would wipe the spot off with a vinegar-moistened paper towel. This kept it moist as I worked. I won't say it was easy, but compared to nothing but elbow grease, it made cleaning the spots a breeze. And if there was a spot where it was just dirt or grease or whatever disguising itself as rust, the vinegar did nothing at all, even if I scratched at it. I literally couldn't scratch up the paint unless I tried really, really hard.
And I'm an English teacher, but I do the it's/its thing all the time.
And I'm an English teacher, but I do the it's/its thing all the time.
11-28-10, 10:18 PM
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[QUOTE=snarkypup;11854859]I just spent the day (and I do mean most of the day) cleaning my Shogun's frame of as much rust as I could. I will have to go over it again tomorrow, and I still have the fork to do. The frame was heavily visited by the rust fairy, who sprinkled her rust dust all over everything. I started with rust remover, but it did nothing after half an hour of sitting there. So then I got out the tip of my Swiss Army knife's metal file out and started to poke at the rust. The scale of the job was overwhelming. There was simply no way that was going to work, so I regrouped.
I remembered what Mkeller had said about vinegar working well on rusty chrome, and that he didn't know if it would work on a painted frame. Well, I thought, after looking at the dropouts, how much more paint could I lose, really? So I dabbed on the vinegar and, after waiting a minute or less, started in with the file. Wow! It really worked. No damage at all to the paint. In fact, I found that if I lost paint, it was because the rust had worked its way underneath it. So now I have a lot of bare frame, and almost no rust. I'm sure I've missed some spots.
I then hit the frame with the scratch remover, which polished it up nicely. It's definitely NOT going to be a beauty. In fact, it will someday be an excellent candidate for repainting, if I like it enough. Given the amount of bare metal, the nail polish coating is going to be rather labor intensive as well.
I'm not sure anyone else would want a bike that looks like this, but I like it as a rain bike, run-around bike, etc. Glad I have the pretty Panasonic, though, too. This one is not a looker up close.
I'll bet thats what the prior owner thought about it, after all that cleaning I would do my best to keep it out of the rain.
BTW, best way to get vinegar to "stay wet" on frame tubes is to soak clean rags in vinegar, place them on the rusty tube, lug, drop, where ever, and cover the rag with saran wrap, then tape up the seems. Repeat on all the affected areas and let sit for a day or soo, all that rust will be gone when you remove the wrpas, and whats still there will wipe off with a wet rag. This works, I've done it many times.
I remembered what Mkeller had said about vinegar working well on rusty chrome, and that he didn't know if it would work on a painted frame. Well, I thought, after looking at the dropouts, how much more paint could I lose, really? So I dabbed on the vinegar and, after waiting a minute or less, started in with the file. Wow! It really worked. No damage at all to the paint. In fact, I found that if I lost paint, it was because the rust had worked its way underneath it. So now I have a lot of bare frame, and almost no rust. I'm sure I've missed some spots.
I then hit the frame with the scratch remover, which polished it up nicely. It's definitely NOT going to be a beauty. In fact, it will someday be an excellent candidate for repainting, if I like it enough. Given the amount of bare metal, the nail polish coating is going to be rather labor intensive as well.
I'm not sure anyone else would want a bike that looks like this, but I like it as a rain bike, run-around bike, etc. Glad I have the pretty Panasonic, though, too. This one is not a looker up close
. I'll bet thats what the prior owner thought about it, after all that cleaning I would do my best to keep it out of the rain.
BTW, best way to get vinegar to "stay wet" on frame tubes is to soak clean rags in vinegar, place them on the rusty tube, lug, drop, where ever, and cover the rag with saran wrap, then tape up the seems. Repeat on all the affected areas and let sit for a day or soo, all that rust will be gone when you remove the wrpas, and whats still there will wipe off with a wet rag. This works, I've done it many times.
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
11-28-10, 10:19 PM
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I just spent the day (and I do mean most of the day) cleaning my Shogun's frame of as much rust as I could. I will have to go over it again tomorrow, and I still have the fork to do. The frame was heavily visited by the rust fairy, who sprinkled her rust dust all over everything. I started with rust remover, but it did nothing after half an hour of sitting there. So then I got out the tip of my Swiss Army knife's metal file out and started to poke at the rust. The scale of the job was overwhelming. There was simply no way that was going to work, so I regrouped.
I remembered what Mkeller had said about vinegar working well on rusty chrome, and that he didn't know if it would work on a painted frame. Well, I thought, after looking at the dropouts, how much more paint could I lose, really? So I dabbed on the vinegar and, after waiting a minute or less, started in with the file. Wow! It really worked. No damage at all to the paint. In fact, I found that if I lost paint, it was because the rust had worked its way underneath it. So now I have a lot of bare frame, and almost no rust. I'm sure I've missed some spots.
I then hit the frame with the scratch remover, which polished it up nicely. It's definitely NOT going to be a beauty. In fact, it will someday be an excellent candidate for repainting, if I like it enough. Given the amount of bare metal, the nail polish coating is going to be rather labor intensive as well.
I'm not sure anyone else would want a bike that looks like this, but I like it as a rain bike, run-around bike, etc. Glad I have the pretty Panasonic, though, too. This one is not a looker up close
I remembered what Mkeller had said about vinegar working well on rusty chrome, and that he didn't know if it would work on a painted frame. Well, I thought, after looking at the dropouts, how much more paint could I lose, really? So I dabbed on the vinegar and, after waiting a minute or less, started in with the file. Wow! It really worked. No damage at all to the paint. In fact, I found that if I lost paint, it was because the rust had worked its way underneath it. So now I have a lot of bare frame, and almost no rust. I'm sure I've missed some spots.
I then hit the frame with the scratch remover, which polished it up nicely. It's definitely NOT going to be a beauty. In fact, it will someday be an excellent candidate for repainting, if I like it enough. Given the amount of bare metal, the nail polish coating is going to be rather labor intensive as well.
I'm not sure anyone else would want a bike that looks like this, but I like it as a rain bike, run-around bike, etc. Glad I have the pretty Panasonic, though, too. This one is not a looker up close
BTW, best way to get vinegar to "stay wet" on frame tubes is to soak clean rags in vinegar, place them on the rusty tube, lug, drop, where ever, and cover the rag with saran wrap, then tape up the seems. Repeat on all the affected areas and let sit for a day or so, all that rust will be gone (without all the hard work) when you remove the wrpas, and whats still there will wipe off with a wet rag. This works, I've done it many times.
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
Last edited by ilikebikes; 11-28-10 at 10:26 PM.
11-28-10, 11:41 PM
#7
Senior Member
I'll bet thats what the prior owner thought about it. After all that cleaning I would do my best to keep it out of the rain.
BTW, best way to get vinegar to "stay wet" on frame tubes is to soak clean rags in vinegar, place them on the rusty tube, lug, drop, where ever, and cover the rag with saran wrap, then tape up the seems. Repeat on all the affected areas and let sit for a day or so, all that rust will be gone (without all the hard work) when you remove the wrpas, and whats still there will wipe off with a wet rag. This works, I've done it many times.
BTW, best way to get vinegar to "stay wet" on frame tubes is to soak clean rags in vinegar, place them on the rusty tube, lug, drop, where ever, and cover the rag with saran wrap, then tape up the seems. Repeat on all the affected areas and let sit for a day or so, all that rust will be gone (without all the hard work) when you remove the wrpas, and whats still there will wipe off with a wet rag. This works, I've done it many times.
11-29-10, 12:03 AM
#8
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^ That was exactly my attitude, but in retrospect, now that I smell like vinegar from every pore, and my hands ache from all that filing, I'm thinkin' the whole tape-and-towel thing sounds pretty good! Fortunately, the fork is the least rusty part of the bike.
ilikebikes, I have a really nice, minty bike to keep pretty and out of the rain. This one is already beat up, so I'm going to give it a good workout by riding it whenever and wherever. But everyone gets garaged and cared for nicely, trust me. Since this bike has a slightly more relaxed sport-touring geometry, and braze-ons for fenders and a rack, it's going to get to haul things and go places. No being allowed to rust though. Me no like rust. Nope. No more.
ilikebikes, I have a really nice, minty bike to keep pretty and out of the rain. This one is already beat up, so I'm going to give it a good workout by riding it whenever and wherever. But everyone gets garaged and cared for nicely, trust me. Since this bike has a slightly more relaxed sport-touring geometry, and braze-ons for fenders and a rack, it's going to get to haul things and go places. No being allowed to rust though. Me no like rust. Nope. No more.
11-29-10, 12:20 AM
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The nice thing about vinegar is that it 'flashes' the metal.Sort of like tanning a hyde,it adds an extra layer of protection against the elements.
11-29-10, 12:38 AM
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I knew there was another reason to love it. My ex hated the smell with a passion. It made him feel nauseated. Toward the end of our marriage, I used to mop the floor with it
.
11-29-10, 02:32 AM
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It's the same as riding - just remember that it'll hurt less next time. Hmm... I wonder if there WILL be a next time 
. (I wish facetiousness worked in print a bit better.)
Just as long as your hands don't end up gnarled stumps, the sight of which instantly kills small dogs and destroys national economys. Like mine.
. (I wish facetiousness worked in print a bit better.)Just as long as your hands don't end up gnarled stumps, the sight of which instantly kills small dogs and destroys national economys. Like mine.
11-29-10, 05:30 AM
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Clean up is quite easy too. I got a 5 gallon bucket from a restaurant supply store and I use that for "big" pieces. While you're cleaning you can sprinkle some on your french fries along with some salt for a tasty snack too
11-29-10, 08:39 AM
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Up here in Canada we have something called COMBAT - see the picture: A bottle like this lasts a lifetime. I've had this bottle since 1992. Picked it up to clean & seal some Mustang suspension parts for a project I was building.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4370787/Combat_0965.JPG
It is a mildly corrosive acid wash with latex or something in it. Clear like water. You put it on the rusty spots with a Q-Tip or whatever and then wait a few minutes & wipe off the rust, admire the results, and then put it on a second time and it dries in place. It seals the metal, and provides a paintable surface. Seems to have no effect on organics like paint but its effective on FeO & Fe2o3.
Even has instructions in French for the Gitane & Peugeot crowd.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4370787/Combat_0965.JPG
It is a mildly corrosive acid wash with latex or something in it. Clear like water. You put it on the rusty spots with a Q-Tip or whatever and then wait a few minutes & wipe off the rust, admire the results, and then put it on a second time and it dries in place. It seals the metal, and provides a paintable surface. Seems to have no effect on organics like paint but its effective on FeO & Fe2o3.
Even has instructions in French for the Gitane & Peugeot crowd.
11-29-10, 10:12 AM
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I've gotta try this tonight on my World Voyageur. What kind of vinegar did you use? Red? White? Cider? Aged Balsamic?
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11-29-10, 10:22 AM
#16
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I dropped a rusted bolt into distilled vinegar and after 24 hours I couldn't tell it did anything to it. I don't have the patience, so I use oxalic acid for rusted parts. For small rust spot treatments on frames I typically use #0000 steel wool. There are better methods, I'm sure, but I haven't found it necessary to look for said method as I've been happy with the results I get.
A '73 World Voyageur definitely calls for Sherry vinegar. Duh.
A '73 World Voyageur definitely calls for Sherry vinegar. Duh.
11-29-10, 10:35 AM
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Not Rice Wine Vinegar? It is Japanese made...
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11-29-10, 10:40 AM
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I dropped a rusted bolt into distilled vinegar and after 24 hours I couldn't tell it did anything to it. I don't have the patience, so I use oxalic acid for rusted parts. For small rust spot treatments on frames I typically use #0000 steel wool. There are better methods, I'm sure, but I haven't found it necessary to look for said method as I've been happy with the results I get.
A '73 World Voyageur definitely calls for Sherry vinegar. Duh.
A '73 World Voyageur definitely calls for Sherry vinegar. Duh.
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You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
11-29-10, 10:58 AM
#19
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Burn. . . . you've got me there. As far as seasoned versus unseasoned, that's a judgment call. I say unseasoned, but I'm obviously not well versed in using vinegar as a rust treatment. I make a mean stir-fry, though.
11-29-10, 11:06 AM
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Never tried vinegar for rust but it is great for cleaning glass, much better than commercial products.
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11-29-10, 01:02 PM
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What I've done is moisten a rag or paper towel with vinegar and draped it over the affected area. It's easy to check progress to determine when it can be removed.
11-29-10, 01:04 PM
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[QUOTE=ilikebikes;11855424]
What I do is wipe on a thin coat of boiled linseed oil and allow it to dry. Quick and easy, and can be repeated if needed.
I then hit the frame with the scratch remover, which polished it up nicely. It's definitely NOT going to be a beauty. In fact, it will someday be an excellent candidate for repainting, if I like it enough. Given the amount of bare metal, the nail polish coating is going to be rather labor intensive as well.
11-29-10, 02:20 PM
#23
Riding like its 1990
I have some rusty clamps on the Raleigh I'm redoing. Think It'd be good to drop them in a bit of vinegar? I also have a bottle of Naval Jelly.
Do you think it was the vinegar or the filing that did the trick?
Do you think it was the vinegar or the filing that did the trick?
11-29-10, 02:56 PM
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Vinegar, being a mild acid, will do the trick. Slowly. In more of a hurry? Use Oxalic acid. Vinegar is great for lots of things. Got indigestion? A teaspoon in warm water with a bit of honey. My wife also sometimes vaporizes it by walking around the house with a frying pan heated on the stove, dropping some vinegar into it so it steams. Kills germs when someone in the house has a cold. Old Chinese thing. I wipe my saltwater fly rods down with a weak solution to counteract saltwater deposits. Oops.....I'm way off topic here ....
11-29-10, 03:14 PM
#25
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I understand, though, that if someone believes it is, that's nearly as good.