uvbears

hello, I recently bought what I think to be a 1981-1983 (not sure exactly) miyata 610. I could use some help from all knowledgeable people here in terms of building it up, part recommendations etc

I am a beginner in terms of mechanic skills but I do have some general knowledge. I am planning on doing as much / all of the work my self. I am trying to spend very little money on this project but still want to get quality made parts that will last (does not have to be fancy)

I have a couple changes I want to make sooner then later. pls let me know your thoughts. thanks!

-swap out 27 inch wheels (they are in rough shape) with modern 700c wheels. I put my 700c wheels in the 610 from my surly cross check and the front wheel fits fine. the brake still works too. so I may order a set of the same rims that the cross check has(alex rims) . any wheel set recommendations?

OR would I be better off just using the alex rims from my cross check and upgrading the cross check wheels? cross check is my semi loaded commmuter / weather bike.

Is using the cross check back wheel and cassette even an option? would it work with the 5 spd friction shifters?

- I want to get modern brake levers and remove the suicide levers. I also want hoods on the levers and maybe even a wider drop bar. what specific parts should i get to accomplish this? would i have to get new cables and brakes? the brakes seem to have some good force left and work pretty well.

also, i enjoy the down tube shifters but would like indexed over friction if it can be done cheaply. if it cant, friction is ok too.


here are a few pics, thx for the info!

USAZorro

No bottle braze-ons, no cantilever brakes and a more upright geometry than I would expect. It must be a very early 610.

Changing brake levers and bars - not a big problem, just make sure you get bars of the appropriate diameter.

Changing to 700c will mean longer reach calipers on the rear. The front should be a simple adjustment.

Changing the rear wheel to a cassette will mean spreading the rear triangle, and will severely limit your options with downtube index shifters.

auchencrow

+1 .
By '81 it already had bottle mounts and a Sakae triple crank. By 82 they upgraded the brakes to Diacompe500 "G brakes" and lost the turkey wings. By '83 it had rack mounts, and by 84, canti's.

If it were me, I would stick with some better 27's, but if you go with 700c, I'd consider going to dual pivot brakes as well. (Either way, get some new Pasela's and perform a turkey wing-ectomy please!)

I would probably upgrade my crank also. (I half suspect that someone scarfed the triple.)

Whatever you decide, the thing that is really nice about these old 610's is the frame: I expect yours too is the double butted Chromoly frame with the same geometry as my 82 (below) . The geometry on these makes for a very lively sports-touring bike.

(Interestingly, the later, more famous Miyata 1000 went the way of the 610 in adopting the longer touring type geometry - not the other way around. )

It's not one I'd weigh down with luggage, but one that's easy to tool around on all day.

Here is the catalog link where you can read all about them.

uvbears

cool. so are you guys thinking this is a late 70's 610?

The main reason why i want to switch to 700c wheels is to have a better selection of tires. do you think that it is not worth switching?

i did not think it would be a big deal to switch to 700c wheels because i put a 700 in the front and it fit easily, brakes worked well also.

can anyone recomend some better 27's that would work well here? also what about the back wheel? do i need to get a new cassette?

basically if someone can point out a specific tire wheel combo that i could order online i would appreciate it. i need to get the wheels switched out asap.

mainstreetexile 

What's the serial number? It should be stamped on the frame under the bottom bracket shell, that will help determine the actual year.

You don't mention what's wrong with the wheels, they might just need a little truing and fresh grease in the hubs. If your wheels are completely trashed, you're probably better getting a cheap 700c wheelset. There was another thread on here recently with some suggestions for cheap wheelsets and links.

auchencrow

Hi uvbears -
Yes I would guess yours is a late 70s then.

I like 27's because I have a bias for Panaracer Pasela's which are inexpensive, readily available and are as good (or better) than anything else out there. It's just economics, and averts having to fool around with substituting brakes. I am sure someone else will explain why it makes more sense to go with 700s.

The original wheels would probably have been Araya 27 x 1-1/4. I like them as they're fairly light, cheap and durable. Weinmann concaves are another favorite of mine for the same reasons.

You have a Freewheel on the back - not a cassette. If you must have more gears, you'll necessarily have to get into the complexities of cold setting frames, maintaining chain line, and substituting new multispeed cassette hubs. I'm not qualified to advise you there, because being a Luddite, I scrupulously stick to 6 speeds or less.

uvbears

thx guys...the 27 wheels are the ones that Auchencrow mentioned (thx!) the wheels are out of true but beyond that i am not sure if they are in safe riding condition. i guess i will take them to a lbs today and see what they say. if i can get them trued and get a confirm that they are safe to ride i may just keep them and get the panaracers as previously mentioned.

also, i would be ok keeping it as a 10 speed, no prob there. can i switch it to indexed over friction though? is that easy to do / cheap??

i am really in a hurry to get the wheels set up right so i can ride.

also, if i change the brake levers would i have to get new brake cables?


thx for helping a nb

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

there's a *chance* it might work with the Suntour RD and cogs and just changing the shifter to a 5 speed indexed model....The real way to do it would be to change your shifter, rear derailleur and freewheel to an all shimano set up that is designed for Indexing. Either way you'll need to change the shifter cable to a special one that is for Indexing (your bike shop will have it) and you'll need Index Shifting compatible Cable Housing for the Rear Derailleur cable run.

If you change the brake levers you can keep the old cables as long as the ends aren't too frayed to reinstall them... of course new cables are like 3 bux.

auchencrow

+1 to what Zaphod said.

On the brakes though, you could keep the levers you have, and just remove the wings. Non-Aero Cane Creek hoods (like the ones on mine) should fit. In any case I would replace the cables with new stainless and housing ( and route them behind the bars ) .

uvbears

very help full stuff, thx

So if i switch my rd, shifter levers, rear cable housing / rear freewheel to a indexing group i can get indexed shifting. could i get a 9 speeds, or am I limited to 5 still? will a 9 speed shimano freewheel work out?

if so, any recommendations on the above mentioned parts? i would love to be able to order these pieces on line and get started building asap.

also, how do i find out what drop handlebars will work with my stem, i cant figure out the size online and i dont have a tool to measure it. any ideas? since i want to get new brake levers is there anything considered a "standard" size?

thx!

ryanmmacoustic

I have an 87' Miyata 712. Probably my favorite bike that I own.
Everything on my bike is Shimano 105.
That might be something to look into

auchencrow

Yours is a 25.4 diameter handlebar - Just about any Japanese made drop bars will fit.
If you mean what size clamp you would need for the road bike brake levers, it's 23.8.

The 9-speed stuff is what gets you into the harangue with spreading frames big time and going to new cassette hubs, new chains, etc.

What ryanmmacoustic is hinting at, is that this is a place you don't want to go - especially as a novice.
Either stick with 5 speeds like Zaphod was saying (at most 6), or buy a late 80's, more expensive bike, with indexing already on it.

Consider too that there is nothing wrong with friction shifting: In fact, it's reliable, requires lots LESS adjustment, and thus can be a lot smoother than any maladjusted indexing system. (My bikes that are set up indexed (Shimano 600, Cyclone7000 ) are run in friction mode only for that very reason. I lack the patience!)

FrenchFit 

Well, just so someone's said it...what you propose makes little sense. If my 27"ers were shot, I'd replace them with a nice 27" wheelset. Smooth rollers (think 29er). I have dura-ace "suicide" brakes on an old Miyata, they work perfectly and it's commuter - simply terrific for stop and go. Why in the world would you want some clunky indexed shifters, friction is sweet, and you can swap freewheels with few compatibility issues. I guess it's a matter of taste, but you are talking about turning a nice bike into an abomination - a frankenbike. So, now its been said.

USAZorro

I like the idea of keeping 27" wheels and running paselas. They are very good tires and are very reasonably priced.

You could go up to 7 speeds in the rear without making major changes. What you would need to do if you change the current wheel to a 6 or 7 speed in the rear is have the dishing and spacing changed. You would want to do this at the same time get the wheel trued. You can still get new 7 speed freewheels through the LBS, but it might be a special order item. The indexed shifters might be a tough thing to acquire new. eBay, or checking with someone here would be two of your better bets. You will also need to adjust the rear derailleur so the stops are appropriate and the shifting is clean. It's not terribly difficult, and many folks can manage this with written instructions. If you're having the LBS dish, space and true your wheel though, they ought to also make sure the derailleur is dialed in for almost nothing (If you have them re-do the shift cables, it would definitely be included).

Good luck with it. Looks like it will be a very nice rider. Not the lightest, but very stable and smooth.

uvbears

ok, so i am going to stick with the friction shifters and 27 inch wheels. I will change the freewheel to a 7 speed , will this one work?
(https://www.google.com/products/catal...wAA#ps-sellers

if so, would this work with pretty much any 27 inch wheel. any recommendations on wheel sets?

if i was to upgrade the crank, what could be recommended?

whats a turkey wing ectomy?

thx folks

auchencrow

These Sunrace indexed shifters would probably do it for you - (Since your fame has no bosses they need to be clamp-ons.)

I think they might have to bump your frame out to 126 to accommodate that one extra cog. It gets really tight with 7 speed. If you are going with new 27's, I would recommend these from Harris Cyclery. They are sealed hubs (smoother than originals) and have a hub and axle suited to the 7-speed.

There are tons of crank options, but it depends on what you can find at what price. I would look for an original Sakae triple like the one on my blue bike above.
A Sugino VP like this one on eBay would probably be good.
Whatever you do - make sure it is compatible for your new 6-7 speed chain, and Square Drive for your bottom bracket. (BTW I assume you are running your original bracket and that the length is right for a triple , but I could be wrong about that.)
A Shimano 105 triple would be another good choice.
Velobase component search describes a lot of what your options are.

A turkey wing-ectomy is the removal of the turkey wings (safety levers) from your brake levers. All you need is a vise and hacksaw. Disassemble the lever - trim the pivot flush with the outer face of the lever body, reassemble & cover it up with a new hood.

bradtx

uvbears, Turkey wing ectomy is cutting off the safety levers. Since this is a perfect bike to practice bicycle mechanic skills with, I'd keep it to some simple updating and overhauling (brake pads, cables/housings, BB, headset and hub bearings). Going to a 7S rear will likely require cold setting the frame's drops from 120 mm to 126 mm, at some point you might want to set it to 130 mm to take advantage of 8S+, but for now follow the KISS principal.

Like my '80 Record Ace you've an entry level, really yours is a bit above entry level, bike boom era bike. Nostalgic, but not really worth sinking a ton of cash into as there are better frames out there. Install some better brake levers, perhaps aero and tinker with the parts to make the bike fit you better like a steering stem, handlebars or even some bar end shifters. Clamp on bottle cage mounts, fenders and generator lamps are still available so there's plenty of stuff available to make a nice ten speed cruiser.

Brad

auchencrow

uvbears -
I think you're getting mixed signals here from us all because on the one hand, you keep saying you want some modern features and we would like to help, and on the other, it's a very nice 10 speed with a great frame and many of us would prefer to preserve its character - 5-speed FW, non aero brake, 27" wheels and all.

To wit, my own 610 above: It's original, archaic, lightweight, and one heck of a nice ride.
Indexing, added gears, all that, would certainly not improve it substantively.

- But it's your bike and you need to be happy with it. - But be advised, it is not uncommon for a newbie to upgrade a bunch of stuff, only to find out after a major expenditure that it really didn't do much - or that what he really wanted wasn't even a C&V bike.

That's why people are saying to follow the KISS principle for now, and see how you like it. You can always go the whole 9 yards later - if you still want to.

uvbears

You guys are really helpful. I appreciate all the time people have put into helping me out here.

Auchencrow, I am going to follow yours and others advise on keeping this one simple. I ordered the wheels from harris cyclery that you recommended., thx! also, I can probably use the 5spd freewheel that I have now on the new wheels, is that right?

if I am going to keep it as 5spd with friction sifters i dont see why i need to replace the current shifters. is there a reason too?

would these brake levers work for me? cane creek scr -5 https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-levers-drop.html

what about this sugino triple https://cgi.ebay.com/Sugino-Impel-All...#ht_1370wt_702

I am totally antsy to get building so i can get riding, I just want to limit the ordering mistakes.

thx again!
adam

ryanmmacoustic

Exactly!

auchencrow

Adam - They will accept 5-6-7 speed FW's no problem

The sealed bearings will be a significant improvement and with new spokes they will true up very well.


The friction shifter you have will work.

Those aero brake levers will look more modern, have incrementally better braking (due to shorter cable length) and will require you to install new housing and cable to fit.

^ That's a mountain bike crank -wrong for this bike.

uvbears

I am going to replace the brake cables anyways so I guess those levers will be fine (just a little modern looking on a old bike)
ok, scratch the crank. i will see if i can win that bid on the sugino crank you recommended rom ebay.

thx auchencrow!

atmdad

Cool, an excuse to post pictures of my 610 again



Mine is an '82 and I absolutely love it, very nice ride. Almost all original, but I did "modernize" the front a little. New ergo drop bars, I hate the randnneer bars, black Cane Creek SCR-5 aero brake levers, new chain, cables/housing, bar tape, and a set of Pasella's.

It already had the bar-cons when I acquired it.

I considered a new wheel set but with a little Mothers Aluminum polish and some elbow grease they cleaned up nicely.

You be the judge on how the modern aero brakes look on this older bike.



Personally, I think they look just fine.

uvbears

look good to me. great looking bike

uvbears

H540128 is the serial number.

thx