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  1. #1
    Glass Blowin Pizza Maker .baker's Avatar
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    Steel Frames: number,code, brand breakdown chart w/ link

    Hello, I had always wondered about the different types of steel tubing and this link was very helpful.
    http://www.desperadocycles.com/Lowdown_On_Tubing.html
    I pulled this chart off of their website also..
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    Are those really suggested rider weight limits? If so most of those tubes or out of my weight range.....even if I lose down to skin and bones. I find a hard time believing that most of the people riding the 58 and up sizes are around 150lbs.

  3. #3
    Randomhead
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    If you look at true temper's rider weights, most U.S. adult males are out of luck. I'd be happy to weigh 170 right now, but there wouldn't be that many tubesets I could use.

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    I sense a dead horse about to get a whooping.

  5. #5
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    I do find it interesting on his opinion page that he has a
    mechanical engineering background but refers to "tinsel" strength.
    Makes that steel sound not so strong

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
    I do find it interesting on his opinion page that he has a
    mechanical engineering background but refers to "tinsel" strength.
    This is why that core freshman year English course is so helpful, even though it may not seem like it at the time.

  7. #7
    Glass Blowin Pizza Maker .baker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seypat View Post
    Are those really suggested rider weight limits? If so most of those tubes or out of my weight range.....even if I lose down to skin and bones. I find a hard time believing that most of the people riding the 58 and up sizes are around 150lbs.
    They maybe and if so theyre not followed very well. Maybe it has something to do with trying to get as light a frame as possible, this could be the only reason I could see for them posting such low max rider weights. It would mean most high end frames are for only the little guys but im sure youll see people way over 125 on the larger size higher end frames.
    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    If you look at true temper's rider weights, most U.S. adult males are out of luck. I'd be happy to weigh 170 right now, but there wouldn't be that many tubesets I could use.
    I def agree something doesnt seem right with this chart as far as the rider weight goes but i used it more for frame weight and thickness to kind of grasp the concept of how the different tubings lined up. Yeah if youre taller than 5 feet and not just skin and bones you are out of luck on what seems to be any of the better tubing ha.
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    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    There's more to total frame weight than just tubing, but for most of our stuff:

    Reynolds 531c = 2050g (the good ol' double butted standard)
    Columbus SL = 1925g (not the extra light stuff, but regular SL)
    Tange #1 = 2220g (all those Ironmen)

    Helps explain why my 531 [now single speed] frame was decaled as SL

  9. #9
    Ride Fast and Ride Safe! gioscinelli's Avatar
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    I prefer Columbus and now I know why! Thank you, Mike

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gioscinelli View Post
    I prefer Columbus and now I know why!
    Because .... ?

  11. #11
    Ride Fast and Ride Safe! gioscinelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
    Because .... ?
    Because, it's responsive, comfortable on long rides, stiff on acceleration, and just all around type of material. In other words it's alive!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gioscinelli View Post
    Because, it's responsive, comfortable on long rides, stiff on acceleration, and just all around type of material. In other words it's alive!
    And you can tell all that from the chart? I'm confused.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gioscinelli View Post
    Because, it's responsive, comfortable on long rides, stiff on acceleration, and just all around type of material. In other words it's alive!
    And by the way, tubesets aren't actually any of those things. Bicycles are.
    Last edited by Picchio Special; 01-13-11 at 12:51 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gioscinelli View Post
    Because, it's responsive, comfortable on long rides, stiff on acceleration, and just all around type of material. In other words it's alive!
    Wouldn't ride characteristics have a lot to do with how a bicycle is built, and not just the tubing used? First if you tell the frame builder, and the frame builder is worth anything, that you want those ride characteristics, they can build you a frame with those, same characteristics. Now put on the right set of components, and you have the perfect bicycle.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    Wouldn't ride characteristics have a lot to do with how a bicycle is built, and not just the tubing used? First if you tell the frame builder, and the frame builder is worth anything, that you want those ride characteristics, they can build you a frame with those, same characteristics. Now put on the right set of components, and you have the perfect bicycle.
    What I was getting at. As was mentioned recently in another thread, the actual tubing type selection is one of the less important decisions a good builder makes. Many good builders - even some production shops - build frames from more than one tubing type.

  16. #16
    Ride Fast and Ride Safe! gioscinelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
    And by the way, tubesets aren't actually any of those things. Bicycles are.
    I think, bicycles are made of tube sets, not ghost particles or virtual tubes. The design of the frames geometry contributes to quality of the ride, but the material is what makes it work!

  17. #17
    In the wind mercator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
    I do find it interesting on his opinion page that he has a
    mechanical engineering background but refers to "tinsel" strength.
    Makes that steel sound not so strong
    You are surprised to find typos in an engineers writing?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gioscinelli View Post
    I think, bicycles are made of tube sets, not ghost particles or virtual tubes. The design of the frames geometry contributes to quality of the ride, but the material is what makes it work!
    You're so misguided, I honestly don't know where to start.

  19. #19
    Ride Fast and Ride Safe! gioscinelli's Avatar
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    Stiffness

    The stiffness of a material is an important aspect of PCB design, being the ability of the material to resist bending. When a board is bent, one surface stretches and the inside of the radius is compressed. The more a material bends, the more the outer surface stretches and the internal surface contracts. A stiff material is one that gives a relatively small change in length when subject to tension or compression, in other words, a small value of strain/stress.

    However, on the basis that stiff = good, a natural feeling that this should be a larger figure means that we actually quote the ratio of stress/strain. So a stiff material has a high value of Young’s modulus. From Table 1 you will be aware of the very wide range of properties in electronic materials. Note that the metals in this list are much stiffer than polymers, but well below the stiffness of a typical ceramic. However, this stiffness is accompanied by extreme brittleness. One of the features of a metal is that it is unlikely to shatter, as would a piece of glass or ceramic, but it will show permanent deformation when forces are applied – ask any metallurgist!

  20. #20
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    Thank you. I now understand why you prefer bicycles built of Columbus to those made of polymers. That was so helpful.

  21. #21
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    Incidentally, a bike built for maximum stiffness wouldn't feel "alive" at all; it would feel dead. It wouldn't be comfortable on long rides, either, since a certain amount of frame flex is desirable to accomplish this. Sprinters sacrifice some comfort for stiffness; climbers sacrifice some stiffness for lower weight (at least in the era of steel pro bikes). It's a tradeoff that doesn't require a chart or an engineering degree to comprehend.

    I'm not saying that tubing type is completely inconsequential in building a frame. I'm saying there are many other considerations that contribute as much or more to the ride qualities you describe. Attributing ride qualities directly to the type of tubing used is naive, and ignores a plethora of factors that enter into play between the creation of the tubes in a factory and the experience of the rider on the road. This is so obvious I'm surprised to find myself having to type it.
    Last edited by Picchio Special; 01-13-11 at 01:56 PM.

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    So back to my original response. What might happen if you put a strong 200-210lb rider on one of these frames built for a 150lber? Should I be concerned about safety? I have set a goal to lose 20lbs before I can mount the fixed up vintage.(the bike is the reward) But I played basketball in college a long time ago at 175-180lbs as a skeleton. About 185 is about the best I can hope for. Should I be worried?

  23. #23
    Fuji Fan beech333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seypat View Post
    So back to my original response. What might happen if you put a strong 200-210lb rider on one of these frames built for a 150lber? Should I be concerned about safety? I have set a goal to lose 20lbs before I can mount the fixed up vintage.(the bike is the reward) But I played basketball in college a long time ago at 175-180lbs as a skeleton. About 185 is about the best I can hope for. Should I be worried?
    I'd wager that they set those weight limits very low for liability purposes, but I am no tubing expert.
    Seeking a 165mm Sugino Super Mighty track crankset.

  24. #24
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seypat View Post
    So back to my original response. What might happen if you put a strong 200-210lb rider on one of these frames built for a 150lber? Should I be concerned about safety? I have set a goal to lose 20lbs before I can mount the fixed up vintage.(the bike is the reward) But I played basketball in college a long time ago at 175-180lbs as a skeleton. About 185 is about the best I can hope for. Should I be worried?
    I don't know....... I'm not. I exceed all those weight restrictions (230lbs), and have been riding Columbus SL/SLX bikes for years. Reynolds 531, too. Haven't had one collapse on me yet.
    "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, itís the triumphant twang of a bedspring."

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    Just what I was wanting to hear bigbossman!

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