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  1. #1
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    Anyone here used Weinmann Vainqueur 800's _and_ Mafac Raids?

    I'm considering whether to buy either Weinmann Vainqueur 800's or Mafac Raids for a 650B conversion project that's using a 27" frame ('84 Trek 610). I think both brakes will work.

    Has anyone here used both brakes? Any comments on one versus the other.

    Thanks,

    Nick

  2. #2
    Senior Member randyjawa's Avatar
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    I think that Mafac brake calipers, either Racers or Competitions, are about the best vintage center pull brakes that I have ever used. Weinmann has never really impressed me even though they work well enough.

    For my money, I would go with the Mafac set-up, but that is just me.

  3. #3
    Senior Member bobbycorno's Avatar
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    Gotta agree: MAFACs are the best. And a good bit lighter than Weinmann/Dia Compe too, IIRC. That said, have you priced RAIDs lately? Last pair I saw on the 'bay went for $126 and some change. Calipers only. Ouch.

    And btw, you should be able to use Weinmann 750s just fine on your 610. That's what I have on mine, and they reach with several mm to spare. Much easier to find than 800s. (And they cost $22.95 for calipers, QR/Adjuster levers and straddle hangers.)

    SP
    Bend, OR

  4. #4
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    I have a set of the 800s but haven't put them on a bike. They do have really long arms, so there's likely some flex issues. I had a set of the Raids and used them for a short while on a 650B conversion, but then sold them off for something like $35! Geez, that was dumb!

    Also, note that the 800s have more reach than the Raids, according to this chart:

    http://ruedatropical.com/2009/01/maf...l-brake-specs/

    Neal

  5. #5
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    If you want to go modern, Tektro 800s reach to 78 mm and have nutted mounting. They're $13.95 per caliper at Bike Tools Etc. I combined them with RL534 levers and I'm amazed at their performance. They're an economy brake, so the finish is not as nice as other Tektros, but it's certainly better than any MAFAC or Weinmann. I'm using the original pads and I don't plan to change them. I didn't even toe them in and they don't squeal.

  6. #6
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    Thanks, everyone, for your comments.

    To go to 650B, I've measured this twice, and one of my measurements indicates that I need reach of 76mm front and 82mm rear and the other measurement says that I need reach of 77mm front and 78mm rear. I suspect the second measurement is more accurate, since it says "re-measured." And I tried a friend's Mafac Raid brakes and my recollection is that I was close to the limit with those. But "close to the limit" could mean I had 2mm of adjustment left. So then maybe 750's or those Tektro 800's would work.

    Bobbycorno, are you using those Weinmann 750's with 650B wheels? I'm using DiaCompe 610's with my 700C wheels and they work fine.

    Thanks again,

    Nick

  7. #7
    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    Modern Bike has the Tektro 800A's for 17.99 a pair. They work great, I've used several sets on my different conversions.
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

  8. #8
    Senior Member bobbycorno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebulls View Post
    Thanks, everyone, for your comments.

    To go to 650B, I've measured this twice, and one of my measurements indicates that I need reach of 76mm front and 82mm rear and the other measurement says that I need reach of 77mm front and 78mm rear. I suspect the second measurement is more accurate, since it says "re-measured." And I tried a friend's Mafac Raid brakes and my recollection is that I was close to the limit with those. But "close to the limit" could mean I had 2mm of adjustment left. So then maybe 750's or those Tektro 800's would work.

    Bobbycorno, are you using those Weinmann 750's with 650B wheels? I'm using DiaCompe 610's with my 700C wheels and they work fine.

    Thanks again,

    Nick
    Yep. 650b, Weinmann 750's on an '84 610. Clearance between the shoes (for removing and installing wheels) can be a bit tight, but otherwise they're fine. IIRC, my brake reach measured 76mm on both ends w/650b's , 57mm on 700c's.

    SP

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbycorno View Post
    Yep. 650b, Weinmann 750's on an '84 610. Clearance between the shoes (for removing and installing wheels) can be a bit tight, but otherwise they're fine. IIRC, my brake reach measured 76mm on both ends w/650b's , 57mm on 700c's.

    SP
    Thanks, Bobbycorno. I've set up an EBay search for Weinmann 750's. I know to watch out for the "999"'s that are a combination of a 610 and a 750. I guess I could get a new DiaCompe 750 set, but that would require drilling the front for a recessed nut, and I'd rather not drill it. Of course, I could also go with a pair of Tektro 800A's, and that seems like it'd be a good option, but since the bike is currently set up for centerpulls, it'd be nice to stick with centerpulls. I like the modulation of the centerpulls better than my dual-pivot Tektro 556's. Plus, by sticking with centerpulls, I can easily switch back and forth between wheels if I want, and hopefully the only other adjustment I'd need to make would be swapping the brakes and possibly adjusting where the hanger cable is bolted.

  10. #10
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    The Weinmann/DiaCompe CP front and rear calipers are identical. The only difference is the length of the brake bolt, so there's no reason to use a short one with a recessed nut if you don't need to.

    Neal

  11. #11
    Senior Member bobbycorno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebulls View Post
    Plus, by sticking with centerpulls, I can easily switch back and forth between wheels if I want, and hopefully the only other adjustment I'd need to make would be swapping the brakes and possibly adjusting where the hanger cable is bolted.
    So you had that idea too, eh? GMTA, as they say...

    With the same brand of brake, you (we?) should just be able to swap wheels and calipers and, voila!

    SP
    Bend, OR

  12. #12
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    ^ Won't chain stay length, rear axle position, fork rake and rim width make interchanging two wheelsets between two bikes a bit more difficult in practice? It's a nice idea, but I'm thinking it wouldn't work out quite that nicely. I'm not an expert, though.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member bobbycorno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    ^ Won't chain stay length, rear axle position, fork rake and rim width make interchanging two wheelsets between two bikes a bit more difficult in practice? It's a nice idea, but I'm thinking it wouldn't work out quite that nicely. I'm not an expert, though.
    Not quite sure I get your drift. I'm talking about changing wheelsets AND brake calipers (short reach with 700c's and long with 650b's). None of the other things should change, since the frame and fork are staying the same.

    SP
    Bend, OR

  14. #14
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbycorno View Post
    Not quite sure I get your drift. I'm talking about changing wheelsets AND brake calipers (short reach with 700c's and long with 650b's). None of the other things should change, since the frame and fork are staying the same.

    SP
    Bend, OR
    I misunderstood. I thought the objective was to have two framesets that could each use one or the other of two wheelsets without having to adjust the brakes on either frame for either wheelset.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
    The Weinmann/DiaCompe CP front and rear calipers are identical. The only difference is the length of the brake bolt, so there's no reason to use a short one with a recessed nut if you don't need to.

    Neal
    nlerner,

    I didn't understand your comment. It seems like a 750 rear wouldn't have a long-enough bolt for the front, unless I drilled the fork crown for a recessed nut. Or is there a place that I can get a replacement bolt that's the right length for the front?

    Thanks,

    Nick

  16. #16
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, would anyone have a spare set of Raids? Minus the bridges and hardware is fine.

    -Kurt

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