Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-19-11, 04:01 PM   #1
shnibop 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
shnibop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
What era is this stem from? AVA. Death Stem?

http://cgi.ebay.com/AVA-Stem-Classic...item41561cf415

considering this for a build (68/69 LeJeune), but not sure if it would be somewhat period correct.

22mm base? to fit a french headset/fork.

is this a "death stem" model, with 2 slots?

alex
shnibop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:06 PM   #2
Capecodder
Senior Member
 
Capecodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Somewhere Between The Beginning And The End
Bikes:
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
22.0mm is correct for a French stem, but I thought they all had a 25.0mm clamp area, but I could be wrong......
Capecodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:19 PM   #3
ColonelJLloyd 
Senior Member
 
ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville
Bikes:
Posts: 8,240
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
shnibop,
I have a very similar AVA stem that NLerner traded me. He told me it was not a "death stem". I trust him. The clamp bolt design is just like the one to which you linked. I did not measure that stem's clamp area, but it has a Japanese randonneur bar in it as we speak. I can only assume that that bar has a 25.4mm diameter. I have seen more modern French stems with 25.4mm clamps and, of course, Cinelli sold stems with 22.0 diameters that accepted a 26.4mm handlebar.
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com

Last edited by ColonelJLloyd; 01-19-11 at 04:24 PM.
ColonelJLloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:21 PM   #4
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 10,003
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
You trusted me?! Bwahahahahahahah!

The AVA death stem has an open back and lots of hollowness. From Sheldon Brown:



Neal
nlerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:32 PM   #5
ColonelJLloyd 
Senior Member
 
ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville
Bikes:
Posts: 8,240
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
So the original stem from my '72 Jeunet "has a reputation for failure and should be replaced immediately"? But I polished it and everything. It has an opening in the back showing it's hollowness. I think it's an Atax, though. It has a little star on it.



__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
ColonelJLloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:39 PM   #6
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 10,003
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Yes, send it to me immediately for proper disposal. In fact, don't even remove it from the bike--just send the whole thing.

Neal
nlerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:51 PM   #7
dashuaigeh
grad stud.
 
dashuaigeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: 1986 Waterford Schwinn Paramount, 1980s Schwinn Voyageur touring, Ciocc Designer #unknown
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
You trusted me?! Bwahahahahahahah!

The AVA death stem has an open back and lots of hollowness. From Sheldon Brown:



Neal
I have a 3ttt stem from the same era with a very similar design, with lots of hollowness and open back - should I be wary of this as well?
dashuaigeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:55 PM   #8
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All variants of AVA stems w/single expander cutouts and no relief holes are destined to fail at the quill. This includes the 1980's variants that have a revised clamp design.

Late 1970's and 1980's ATAX (Cinelli 1A-copy) stems often have voids and are prone to cracks.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 04:57 PM   #9
dashuaigeh
grad stud.
 
dashuaigeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: 1986 Waterford Schwinn Paramount, 1980s Schwinn Voyageur touring, Ciocc Designer #unknown
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
All variants of AVA stems w/a single expander cutout and no relief hole is destined to fail.

-Kurt
My teeth thank you.
dashuaigeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 05:01 PM   #10
ColonelJLloyd 
Senior Member
 
ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville
Bikes:
Posts: 8,240
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashuaigeh View Post
My teeth thank you.
Meh. Surely it wouldn't fail on you, Jesse.
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
ColonelJLloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 05:42 PM   #11
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,628
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Sheldon Brown said that all of the AVA stuff has a reputation for breaking and should be replaced. That includes AVA bars. He didn't restrict it to the particular style in the picture. I also saw in an old thread where he said that all French stems should be replaced. I'm not willing to go that far.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 05:44 PM   #12
triplebutted
Senior Member
 
triplebutted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SoCal
Bikes: Lemond, Gios, Fuji, Trek, too many to write
Posts: 1,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Has anyone seen these things break or a picture of it broken?
triplebutted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 06:08 PM   #13
PDXaero
French threaded
 
PDXaero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR.
Bikes: many
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I took the picture that is on velobase of a cracked death stem. At least I think its still up.
Sheldons reference has been previously disregaurded as a safty sentiment only. - if you don't know if its dangerous, you should replace it just to be careful.
Aside from this, I have only seen failure in the 2-slot versions. I use (and occasionaly inspect) an AVA stem with 25.4 clamp and one slot. Also I have never heard of the later "open-face" AVA stem having any issue.
PDXaero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 06:10 PM   #14
scozim 
Ellensburg, WA
 
scozim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Bikes: See my signature
Posts: 2,786
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Here's a link to GitaneUSA about French death stems. No photos of the AVA but some good info.
__________________
1984 Gitane Sprint; 1984 Gitane Tour de France;1982 Trek 610; 1980's Univega Supra Sport (fixie); 1975 Teledyne Titan; 1968 Peugeot PL8; ;1982 Nishiki Marina 12; 1972 Peugeot PX-10; 1987 Trek 800 Antelope (touring/commuting set up); 1981 Trek 510; 1993 Trek 950 mtb; 1996 Klein Pulse II mtb; 1997 Klein Pulse Comp mtb; 1989 Peugeot Limestone hybrid (for touring); 1989 Spectrum Titanium
scozim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 06:11 PM   #15
triplebutted
Senior Member
 
triplebutted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SoCal
Bikes: Lemond, Gios, Fuji, Trek, too many to write
Posts: 1,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cool. I"ve been reading about it and I just happen to have a quill 22.2 stem that I can sand down. But I want it to have the original look. I probably won't be hammering on the bike anytime soon.
That's good to know though.
triplebutted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 06:32 PM   #16
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,628
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by scozim View Post
Here's a link to GitaneUSA about French death stems. No photos of the AVA but some good info.
One man's opinion.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 06:42 PM   #17
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
That includes AVA bars.
Correct. I have yet to see an AVA bar that isn't bent lower on one side from rider weight than the other.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 06:55 PM   #18
scozim 
Ellensburg, WA
 
scozim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Bikes: See my signature
Posts: 2,786
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
One man's opinion.
Agreed - just provided as input. It's more prudent to periodically check the stems to make sure issues aren't developing.

I would agree with you that I wouldn't go as far as Sheldon did with his opinion either.
__________________
1984 Gitane Sprint; 1984 Gitane Tour de France;1982 Trek 610; 1980's Univega Supra Sport (fixie); 1975 Teledyne Titan; 1968 Peugeot PL8; ;1982 Nishiki Marina 12; 1972 Peugeot PX-10; 1987 Trek 800 Antelope (touring/commuting set up); 1981 Trek 510; 1993 Trek 950 mtb; 1996 Klein Pulse II mtb; 1997 Klein Pulse Comp mtb; 1989 Peugeot Limestone hybrid (for touring); 1989 Spectrum Titanium
scozim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 06:58 PM   #19
Amesja
Cottered Crank
 
Amesja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago
Bikes: 1954 Raleigh Sports 1974 Raleigh Competition 1969 Raleigh Twenty 1964 Raleigh LTD-3
Posts: 3,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
Sheldon Brown said that all of the AVA stuff has a reputation for breaking and should be replaced. That includes AVA bars. He didn't restrict it to the particular style in the picture. I also saw in an old thread where he said that all French stems should be replaced. I'm not willing to go that far.
Perhaps the entire country should be replaced? That would surely be too far...
Amesja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 07:14 PM   #20
schwinnderella
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I have seen a number of cracked and broken stems of various brands.There is always a lot of talk about the so called Ava death stems. Considering the frequency that these supposedly fail you would think there would be a lot of pictures,but i seldom see any,so I tend to be a bit skeptical. As a matter of fact there seems to be little agreement on which models are the death stems.However here are a few pics of an Ava stem that has a scary looking crack.This style which has the vertical bolt is the style which i tend to be wary of.I do not know if this style is the supposed death stem.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ava.JPG (33.4 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg ava (2).JPG (35.1 KB, 53 views)
schwinnderella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 07:36 PM   #21
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwinnderella View Post
....There is always a lot of talk about the so called Ava death stems. Considering the frequency that these supposedly fail you would think there would be a lot of pictures,but i seldom see any,so I tend to be a bit skeptical. ....
+1

My death stem has not cracked in 40 years. That could change tomorrow, but a lot of other things could happen too.

__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 07:50 PM   #22
Henry III 
is just a real cool dude
 
Henry III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Thumb, MI
Bikes:
Posts: 3,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
I used one of these on my wife's Bottecchia mixte build. Now you guys got me all worried. I even polished it all up.
Henry III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 07:53 PM   #23
Chombi 
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Posts: 10,853
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
It only takes a few people saying "Death stems", "Death fork", "Death Frame"....."Death bike", then all of the sudden it's taken as fact by everyone and their kittens! I suspect that they might have cracked as shown but most likely most of them did not crack any further than that for most people.

Chombi

Last edited by Chombi; 01-20-11 at 02:12 AM.
Chombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 07:57 PM   #24
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
COMING TO A BICYCLE SHOP NEAR YOU:

The all NEW Titan Teledyne with Viscount Aerospace Pro aluminum fork. Fitted with AVA stem and bars, Simplex Prestige front and rear derailers, non-stress-relieved Record crankarms, drillium seatpost, and no warranty.

Please bring a valid $1,000,000 life insurance policy with you when you make your purchase.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-11, 08:09 PM   #25
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,246
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Here's the same stem mounted to my '62 Continental. Still smiling after 49 years.

__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 PM.