Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-21-11, 05:35 PM   #1
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My new-to-me broken Guerciotti!

What do you guys think? Got any info on this bad boy?



















realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 05:41 PM   #2
Chombi 
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Posts: 10,941
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
You can have that down tube replaced if you want to.....
The Gipiemme DOs might hint that it could be a mid level frame. I would think that higher model frames usually had Campy DOs??
Good luck if you plan to repair and ride it.
Forgot to ask, what happened to the frame/rider(?) that it broke like that??

Chombi
Chombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 05:44 PM   #3
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
You can have that down tube replaced if you want to.....
The Gipiemme DOs might hint that it could be a mid level frame. I would think that higher model frames usually had Campy DOs??
Good luck if you plan to repair and ride it.
Forgot to ask, what happened to the frame/rider(?) that it broke like that??

Chombi
I planned on getting it fixed. I took a gamble and won it on "the Bay" for $60. Southwest Frameworks told me they could replace the downtube for $125.

Any other framebuilders you guys would recommend?
realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 05:49 PM   #4
divineAndbright 
Senior Member
 
divineAndbright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 2,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why was the downtube cut like that? Me thinks in order to steal it if the lock holding it down was too much to cut through. $60 seems quite steep for a ruined frame, was it local as in you got to pick it up?
divineAndbright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 05:51 PM   #5
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by divineAndbright View Post
Why was the downtube cut like that? Me thinks in order to steal it if the lock holding it down was too much to cut through. $60 seems quite steep for a ruined frame, was it local as in you got to pick it up?
It broke like that. Was the guys daily rider, then one day... snap.

It was $60 with free shipping.



Serial:

realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 05:58 PM   #6
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
The real cost will be incurred duplicating the paint on the replaced downtube!

That is an interesting break. It's my understanding tubes usually only break like that if they've been overheated during the initial brazing process.
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:06 PM   #7
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The paint is interesting, but I'm thinking about repainting anyway. Most important thing is that it's fixed and ridable. I wanted a Columbus frame that I could personalize and not feel guilty about repainting it.
realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:10 PM   #8
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
You can have that down tube replaced if you want to.....
The Gipiemme DOs might hint that it could be a mid level frame. I would think that higher model frames usually had Campy DOs??
Good luck if you plan to repair and ride it.
Forgot to ask, what happened to the frame/rider(?) that it broke like that??

Chombi
It's got neat details, but I don't really have experience with anything other than Japanese and English frames. So I don't know if it would be considered mid-level or not. Check out the rear brake bridge.

realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:12 PM   #9
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,968
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
I must add that the best thing about fixing that frame will be refinishing it. Not into the candle soot look. Neat frame. A worthy save.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:13 PM   #10
CV-6 
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Bikes: Lejeune, Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré, Springfield, Motobecane, John Howard
Posts: 4,217
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
The Gipiemme DOs might hint that it could be a mid level frame. I would think that higher model frames usually had Campy DOs??


Chombi
The Guerciotti frame I had with Gipiemme drops was TreTubi Aelle. Nice riding frame. Yes to mid-level.
__________________
Lynn Travers

Photos
CV-6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:19 PM   #11
Chombi 
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Posts: 10,941
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
It's got neat details, but I don't really have experience with anything other than Japanese and English frames. So I don't know if it would be considered mid-level or not. Check out the rear brake bridge.

Not really sure if the Gipimme DO is a 100% evidence that the frame might not be top line, but Gipiemme is usually considered "second tier" (Like Ofmega, and Miche),when it comes to italian components. Maybe their DO's are better quality than their other stuff.
The brake bridge and the pantograph work on the rest of the frame does look impressive though,...Maybe it's not mid level but at least 3/4 from the top of the line model?? Any evidence on the frame that might say it's built with Columbus SLX tubing? (Look for the "rifling" ribs in the tubes connected to the BB shell.) If it is SLX then it is high line model.

Chombi
Chombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:32 PM   #12
GrayJay
Senior Member
 
GrayJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: EagleRiver AK
Bikes:
Posts: 1,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I once had a Medici frame down tube break just like that as I was riding it (no sudden impact). Steering just started feeling really wierd and when I checked it out I found that it had cracked all the way through. I rode it home cracked and retired the frame.
GrayJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:37 PM   #13
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
The real cost will be incurred duplicating the paint on the replaced downtube!

That is an interesting break. It's my understanding tubes usually only break like that if they've been overheated during the initial brazing process.
When the head tube lug is not thinned (even if it is rounded ) it can cause quite a stress riser as evidenced by this break.
vjp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:41 PM   #14
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
I once had a Medici frame down tube break just like that as I was riding it (no sudden impact). Steering just started feeling really wierd and when I checked it out I found that it had cracked all the way through. I rode it home cracked and retired the frame.
This is the seller's description to a tee. The steering got funny with a slight shimmy, then it just cracked.

I know it's Columbus of some sort. You can see the outline where the decal used to be on the seat tube. I'll be looking for any other identifying marks.
realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:44 PM   #15
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 9,432
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
I'd agree that in general the Gipiemme DOs indicate a lower-than-SL tubing, but whether this one is lower, or what it has (Tre-tubi, all-Aelle, Aelle R, etc.) you'd have to find a catalog with the same frame spec'd. Obviously they didn't skimp on the lugs, the frame bits or the paint (and I'm surprised TSD was doing the smoked paint in the US, thought it was more of a Carlo Doseno thing)
unworthy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 06:59 PM   #16
embankmentlb
Senior Member
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Bikes: Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's
Posts: 1,977
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
That's a Ten Speed Drive painted Guerciotti. 1987-1988 ish. I worked for a local Guerciotti shop in that era. Smoked finish frames were very common. Limitless choices from TSD. Aelle tubing sticker would have been original.
embankmentlb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 07:05 PM   #17
Robofunc
Senior Member
 
Robofunc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Bikes: Schwinn, Bottecchia, Miyata, projects
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That smoked effect was created by waving a torch back and forth over white paint, correct?
Robofunc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 07:07 PM   #18
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjp View Post
When the head tube lug is not thinned (even if it is rounded ) it can cause quite a stress riser as evidenced by this break.
Thanks, vague recollection of reading that before. Justifies handcrafted frames with thinned lugs. It's not simply vanity!
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 07:31 PM   #19
embankmentlb
Senior Member
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Bikes: Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's
Posts: 1,977
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I am not sure exactly how the smoke effect was done. Two of our local racers managed to crack two different guerciotti frames of several seasons of use. My bike is Aelle tri tube.
embankmentlb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 07:37 PM   #20
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Thanks, vague recollection of reading that before. Justifies handcrafted frames with thinned lugs. It's not simply vanity!
So, will I at least break even on the value of the frame after I get the tube repaired?
realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 07:54 PM   #21
CV-6 
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Bikes: Lejeune, Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré, Springfield, Motobecane, John Howard
Posts: 4,217
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Save the finish, it is a dead ringer for my 87 Guerciotti Strada made with TreTubi Aelle. I'd insert a photo, but WJ doesn't work that way.

Frame Photos here



Quote:
Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
So, will I at least break even on the value of the frame after I get the tube repaired?
No. I think my frame sold for $175 plus shipping. You are looking at $125 plus paint. You will probably be into it for $300 plus.
__________________
Lynn Travers

Photos

Last edited by CV-6; 01-21-11 at 07:58 PM.
CV-6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 08:24 PM   #22
buldogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
Bikes:
Posts: 1,686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That there is a frame to practice framebuilding/brazing on...
buldogge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 08:41 PM   #23
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by buldogge View Post
That there is a frame to practice framebuilding/brazing on...
Same and sweating copper plumbing right? Lol.

I'm not scared to try it. Just need a little help figuring tube length and such.
realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 10:22 PM   #24
realestvin7 
Large Member
Thread Starter
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where's the most affordable place to get a stick of tubing? And which tubing, specifically, would I need?

I'm a fabricator at heart. Might as well try my own skill.
realestvin7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-11, 11:09 PM   #25
CV-6 
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Bikes: Lejeune, Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré, Springfield, Motobecane, John Howard
Posts: 4,217
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
Where's the most affordable place to get a stick of tubing? And which tubing, specifically, would I need?

I'm a fabricator at heart. Might as well try my own skill.
If you are near Dallas, you might ask SW Frameworks if they have something they might sell you. If I am not mistaken, you will have to unbraze the top tube also. But not having built a frame, I am only guessing. Maybe you can work it out with them to pay for the tubing and some instruction. Who knows? You may get the bug and 50 years from now someone may be getting excited about finding an old realestvin7 frame.
__________________
Lynn Travers

Photos
CV-6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:49 AM.