happytramp

Hey there, I've got a frame that I've reason to believe is made from Columbus tubing. Are there any tell-tale signs that might be associated with Columbus? Like Cinelli fork crown and lugs or Campagnolo dropouts? Or are they equally as common with Reynolds? The frame was made by a Scottish frame builder who only made a handful of frames in the 80's or 90's. He built it with an English threaded bb. Cheers guys!

bobbycorno

Well, there are two things that come to mind: If you look down inside the steerer and there are spiral reinforcing ribs then it's a Columbus steerer. (Tho' didn't some Japanese tubing mfr do the spiral ribs too? Tange, maybe?) And you can measure the width and depth (front to rear) of the fork blades up by the crown. If they don't measure 28x20mm, then they're definitely NOT Columbus. But they could be something else, as that's become the common size. Any of the other stuff (lugs, crown, drops, etc) will work with pretty much any tubes. There may be other things to check, but that's all I know.

SP
Bend, OR

unworthy1

Tange did also make some with spiral ridges, but Ishiwata used 6 instead of 5 and theirs do not spiral. The oddest thing is the occasional Tange fork made with a Columbus steerer...both logos on the column...it's rare (like only seen on a few high-end Nishikis and perhaps a Tenax-tubing Schwinn).
AFAIK the Reynolds "Continental" pattern fork-blades copied these Columbus dimensions (as distinct from the earlier "Imperial" pattern blades).
The other real good clue would be finding any faint stampings on the tubes themselves that ID the brand: all the paint has to be stripped and then you need luck.

redxj

With a small custom builder it could be even a mix of different brands of tubes. But, the Columbus bikes I have or still own almost all of them had the Columbus dove stamped on the fork's steerer tube. Columbus dropouts would probably be a good indicator of Columbus. tubing.

Chombi

I thought I've seen some Columbus tubed frames that had their bird logo stamped on them near the tube ends.....
Finding any rifling does not neccesarily mean it's always Columbus. I believe that some Supervitus 980 frames have rifling in their steerer tubes too, but if you do see it at the tubes going into the BB, then it most likely is Columbus and most likely SLX.

Chombi

Picchio Special

I think this is right. The Columbus profile gained so much popularity in the mid-late 70's that Reynolds felt compelled to mimmic it. You could build a Reynolds fork in either style.

Picchio Special

With a Scottish framebuilder this is known as "looking under the kilt."

happytramp

Thank's for the very informative responses folks! I haven't found any stamps or rifling yet but then again I haven't 'looked under the kilt' due to stripped extractor threads on my crank. Were many of the Columbus tubesets rifled or was it mostly SLX? I wouldn't have expected SLX since the frame is most likely built with touring in mind (based on clearances and the fact that the builder toured a lot himself and mostly built frames for his touring buddies) I had a hunch it was a mix of SL and SP tubing, since I've seen photo's of similar bikes he built sporting the Columbus stickers that denoted such a mix (Small, Blue border, Columbus and bird logo, no mention of tube type) Although I could be way off. I'll have a look at the steerer tomorrow to see if there's any hidden marks I missed!!

Picchio Special

You're thinking this through pretty well. An SL seat tube could be rifled - or not (depending on when the frame was made).

happytramp

More likely I'm over thinking it I've just found myself going over every part of the frame looking with a flashlight looking for a little bird shape. It's all getting very CSI.

JohnDThompson 

Columbus SL and SP only had rifled steer tubes. SLX and SPX had rifling on other tubes as well.

Until the early 80s, Columbus tubes were stamped with their trademarked "dove" logo, but these were often lost when the tubes were trimmed to length during building. Starting in the early 80s, Columbus tubes were marked using a graphite electrode which was not visible after the frame had been painted.

realestvin7

How about this fork? Any info? Hopefully I'll have it out of the frame tomorrow.







Here's the frame...

old_dreams

From what I've read absence of rifling does not necessarily mean it is not Columbus. I have Columbus Cromor and it has no rifling.

JohnD, do you know if the paint was stripped off would this marking from the graphite electrode still be visible? If a frame was sanded down would it still be there or likely sanded off?

cudak888 

There's also the sloppy framebuilder method - look for a Columbus dove stamp buried under the paint, covered in insufficient brass or silver fill.

I'll post a photo in a bit of an extreme example.

-Kurt

jonwvara 

I like the title of this thread--makes it sound like Columbus tubing is some awful disease, as in "The Seven Warning Signs of Columbus Tubing."

unworthy1

I may have confused Tange with Ishiwata, but whichever Japanese steerer this is, it's not Columbus: 6 fat ridges and no spiral compared to Colombus' 5 thinner and spiraled ridges. (Good pic to use for future reference, too)
It's also true, as old_dreams notes, that not every Columbus set used a spiral ridged steerer: SL, SP and latter SLX & TSX complete tubesets came with them, but lower-grade tubesets did not, and a builder who used 3-main-tubes Columbus with lesser grade stays and forkblades might not have used one. Lots of variation out there...

realestvin7

I have no doubt about it being Tange. It just happens to be my only Tange frame (out of 5) that have the ridges.

The ridges are definitely rifled (spiraling) on my Tange fork in the above pics.

JohnDThompson 

Straight ribs suggest Ishiwata to me.

JohnDThompson 

The graphite markings are superficial and would not likely survive abrasives.

JohnDThompson 

realestvin7

Why would Ishiwata and Tange be used together? The ribs are staight, but are offset in a spiral pattern.

unworthy1

if those spiral they do it much less than the Columbus ridges spiral, maybe a subtle twist is what differentiates Tange steerers from Ishiwata...or maybe not. Have you removed the fork to check for markings on the outside of the steerer? (usually the dead give-away)

realestvin7

I need a spanner wrench to get of of the steerer lockring spacers off. Maybe I can trudge into the snow to the LBS. If they're even open in this ridiculous weather we're having.

downunder trav

first of all the nishiki frames were exclusively made of japanese tubing!

I also cannot believe that none of you have referred to the sound that true columbus tubing makes when it is struck. The easiest way to tel colombus tubing of that era was to flick it with your middle finger, Columbus tubing had a ring like a bell that was unmistakeable, tange tubing was like a dull thud in comparison. flick it if it rings like a bell and continues to have a harmonious ring it is probably colombus, if it rings but sounds harsh it could be reynolds but if it doesn't it will probably be tange or ishi. Honestly colombus is truly unmistakeable in the way it rings!

Also the fork crowns and braze lugs are a give away that it is a jap tube set

miamijim

Miyata....