Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-03-11, 08:09 PM   #1
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rhetorical Super Record TI questions

A. If you found a 1977 Raleigh Professional MkV, would you expect to find 1976-dated components on it?

B. If so, would you find it unusual that these components are Super Record?

C. If you believe that the 1976-dated Super Record groupset is absolutely original to the bike (with exception to the FD; a later SR piece), would you expect the hub axles to be original to the group as well?

D. Even if the axles are quite obviously TI; ditto for the pedal spindles and BB?

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-11, 07:09 AM   #2
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll bite, but all this is pure conjecture B.S. just to bump this back to the top to see if some more knowledgeable Campagnolo aficionados can answer your quiz.

A: TRUE. While the frame was assembled as a running bicycle to be sold in 1977, Raleigh worked a great deal with Campagnolo near the end of 1976 to purchase the SR gear. This was the era of high inflation, oil volatility, etc., etc. Business was pitiful and deals were to be made.

B: FALSE. Even though they were SR, TI, etc., bling was bling and it was even cool back in the late '70s (just take a look at those Lincolns in your driveway ).

C: MAYBE. We never know what sort of road and riding conditions these wheels had to pass over and endure. RR tracks, pot holes, sidewalk curbs, 300 lb riders, skid stops in front of movie theaters announcing the opening of Star Wars...

D: ONLY IF--- The original owner had some serious cash to put on the table.

Do you know how rare TI alloy was in the late '70s? It was mostly used in military jet fighter aircraft at the time. The average Joe could not afford it. How do I know this? My dad was a Quality Control Metallurgist who worked for a defense contractor. Titanium was used in very specialized applications at the time, was extremely difficult to work, and had to be accounted for at the end of each project.

In 1975 Dad borrowed a piece I could take to my metal shop class for a day, but he had to return it to the lab the next day. He told me he risked his security clearance if it did not come back. Of course he could have been trying to impress his 17 y.o. son at the time.

How did I do on your pop quiz, Professor Kurt?
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-11, 08:12 AM   #3
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Very well put. I'm glad you mentioned the external possibilities of ride conditions; curiously enough, everything you list was valid in 1977 Miami as it is still today. There's a possible exception to the opening Star Wars, perhaps

I intend to pull the axles to get a better look at them. Who knows - the rear axle might be cracked, as most are. We'll see. At any rate, I'll do a detailed photo-doc on them.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-11, 09:40 AM   #4
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There were aftermarket titainium and aluminum bits you could buy to fit to your Campagnolo back in the 70s.

I have a pair of unused titainium axles, Cinelli stem bolts in titainium and rear derailler mounting and cage bolts in aluminum, maybe some titainium crank bolts too. There were titainium mounting bolts for the brakes too, who knows what else!
dbakl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-11, 05:12 PM   #5
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thing is, I'm looking for evidence that the SR TI axles in Catalog 17 existed.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-11, 05:28 PM   #6
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
A. If you found a 1977 Raleigh Professional MkV, would you expect to find 1976-dated components on it?

B. If so, would you find it unusual that these components are Super Record?

C. If you believe that the 1976-dated Super Record groupset is absolutely original to the bike (with exception to the FD; a later SR piece), would you expect the hub axles to be original to the group as well?

D. Even if the axles are quite obviously TI; ditto for the pedal spindles and BB?

-Kurt
A. I dont know. Did Raleigh spec the MkV with SR? If they didnt I'd expect it to be a frameset build.

B. Again, if they built it with SR then NO, but if it were a frameset build then NO.

C. A '77 frameset would be built with '77 or earlier comonents dependng on month of manufacture of frameset. A nice rule of thumb is 6 months. An August-December frameset could be built with current year components.

D. I dont know. I know where your going with this but I'm not up to speed on the exact dates for SR production.
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-11, 05:32 PM   #7
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
There were aftermarket titainium and aluminum bits you could buy to fit to your Campagnolo back in the 70s.

I have a pair of unused titainium axles, Cinelli stem bolts in titainium and rear derailler mounting and cage bolts in aluminum, maybe some titainium crank bolts too. There were titainium mounting bolts for the brakes too, who knows what else!
Keep in mind that 70's Ti was pure Ti and it was brittle and that was the downfall of 70's Ti. Modern Ti is an alloy thats much more durable.
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-11, 05:55 PM   #8
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
Posts: 5,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Thing is, I'm looking for evidence that the SR TI axles in Catalog 17 existed.

-Kurt
You might find evidence, but proof will be harder, since the original Campagnolo axles did find their way into the marketplace. Still, it would be a useful bit of data. There were certainly bikes that had the aftermarket axles as original equipment - some may even have been sold on new sets of hubs in the original Campagnolo boxes. So you'll have some real research to do.
Picchio Special is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:37 PM.