Lenton58 

TUBULARS, MY VIEW
Unfortunately, they don't make so many of them like back in the days. Maybe this is just for Japan — I dunno: you either have to go expensive as in 'hand-made' ... as used by the keirin racers and road pro's, or you get the massed produced stuff from Indonesia and Thailand that is cheap enough, but just does not make the grade. I can't seem to get supplied with an in-between grade. The LBS says they don't exist anymore. Really????

Just trying to get the affordable types glued on so they are true and straight is a challenge — even for my LBS mechanic with his magic hands. He is better than I am, but the limitations set by the imperfections of production are just as evident.

Not only that, but despite all the technology advertised on the sales cover — Kevlar blah blah, I still think that they are a turd short of a full dump. An example in point: on one bike I have an ancient, Clement Super Condor hand-me-down, pre-owned/used tubular on the front. A friend gave it to me before he repatriated. No idea how he got it. It had been folded since god was promoted corporal. But it glued on and flew right. Moreover, it has seen not one, but two Vitorrios on the rear become screwed up and worn out. And getting them unfolded, straightened out, glued and mounted true was like like fighting the giant squid on the Nautilus! And this was in spite of forming them partially inflated and forming for a month before mounting. Moreover, they were not as good in any way as the vintage Clement from the git-go.

REVIEWING THE OPTION
Recently, I finally ran out of legacy tubular rims. At last I had to choose a new wheel set for the next build. I went to clincher types. Yes, they are heavier! But I can shoot 120 psi into my Continentals. And a puncture kit weighs less than a tubular strapped under the saddle. Even with a new tube the price is easy. And, given a few minutes, I can mount them without a lever — perfectly!

Each to his own. Tubulars just have a coolness no matter what hassle and expense. Nothing looks as good as any sew-up. But, I just can't afford $80+ for a decent tire — sew-up or clincher.

What do you think? Can you ... are you getting good tubulars that are for the rest of us ... ie: not over-the-top professional race gear?

THE FUTURE?
BTW/PS — I will not be converting my tubular equipped bikes — come what may. I'll just keep wrestling with junk like the Vittorios — or maybe I'll just stash away bits of cash and save up for one ultra-tubular at a time — each costing the price of a vintage 531 frame — two of them costing more than the price I paid for an NOS vintage C-Record crank set in the original box with docs. Is something is out of balance here?

beech333

So far, I only have one bike outfitted with tubulars. I've used it quite a bit this last fall, but I don't notice it being anything special. Since the tubies are old, I bought a somewhat lightly used set of Continental Competitions for $30 at a swap. The max pressure on the Contis is significantly higher than anything I have had before, so I will be curious how they ride in the Spring.

So far, my opinion is that clinchers are far more practical for me. I only strayed from clinchers to see what all of the fuss was about and I am not impressed.

iab

Correct. Good tubulars aren't inexpensive.

Incorrect. There is no greater hassle than trying to fit a tight clincher.

Incorrect. The analogy to the C-Record cranks. You got a great deal. Don't compare apples to oranges. At the swap in Chicago, a forum member got 2 silk Dugast tubulars for $75. I am very jealous.

As the only item that actually contacts the ground, is there a more important piece of equipment than the tire?

20grit

I like the looks of my Gommitalia Espressos, but I'm still in the process of building up the bike. I can't comment on the ride just yet. Price wise, they seem to be in a middle ground, even though they're made in Thailand. They're far cheaper than the Gommitalia Platinums but about twice the price of the Champions... seems middle ground to me.

sced

I feel the same. I have tubulars on my wife's and my classics, and they are fun in their own way, but our modern bikes have quite nice clincher wheels and tires that ride very well and I trust them more to take us a long way from home.

Bianchigirll 

I agree on them being either lowend cheap or super expensive. but unless they were fro racing I seldom purchased good tires. I got a good deal on a set of wheels last spring and they came with expensive Vittoria servo corse something or other. they did roll smoother than my usual Rally fodder.

also I have had easy to change clincher and the real tight ones, and while you still need to glue it on back home changing a flat on a tubular is much quicker

I still think the biggest part of the ride quality is the wheel style. my older box section clincher and tubular 32/36 spoke wheels ride much smoother then my low spoke deep V Mavic Krysums clinchers. they feel faster and maybe stiffer but you feel every bump

Henry III

I like the 3 for $50 tubulars at Yellow Jersey in Madison. You can have both gum and black walls and. I have them mounted on my Raleigh Comp and Raleigh Technium. Why three you ask? Two for the bike and a spare. I don't think you can even get two of the cheapest Vittoria tubulars for that price. No bulges or anything funky. I've got clinchers on my two new nice bikes with decent rubber so I'm not just some tubular nazi. I was trying to keep the Comp period correct and the Technium I just had a spare set of tubular Campy Record wheels so why not.

Lenton58 

Bianchigirll: It is the Rallys I've been using. Fodder is a good choice of words.

Henry III: Well that was my sort of position for a long time, otherwise my re-entry into things velo would have had me choosing clinchers — maybe! They sure have come a long way in the last 15 years.

20grit: Thanks. I'll press on and see if I can get them here in Nippon. Sounds better than more Rallys.

lab: I've had some nasties, but back in the Cretaceous I had jobs in motorcycle shops where changing tires was still done the old fashioned way. After that, bike tires seemed easier

lab: Points taken. You are correct.

beech: I like tubulars, but then I don't rides hundreds of miles at a time. I don't mind if it feels like I need my fillings checked after 90 minutes on the dike road. They fly. But the practical factor you mention has got me turning around. If I find I can't feel somewhat, kinda-sorda (not exactly) the same fleetness, I'll complete this build on clinchers and revert to tubulars the next time around. Except for having to work, I've been stuck in bed with a leg injury and viruses for months, so I've not had a chance to get out and try the clinchers yet.

20grit

Lotek seems to really like the Espressos. His comments on them were the main reason I went that route. He can probably fill you in a bit more.

Lenton58 

20grit: Thanks. I really have to get out more and see what I can get. My LBS is good at ordering anything I need or want — most of which has to come up from Osaka or Tokyo. But they seem stuck for choices in what they can get in the way of tires and tubulars. As I said, middle road tubular were off the menu. Offshore ordering usually discourages me because of the higher freight charges these days. But folded tires and tubulars — maybe the cost would not be so bad.

Wogster

I've never had tubular tires, but I think most of the advantages of tubular tires have been dealt with. If we look back to when tubular tires were common we found three huge advantages:

1) They were considerably lighter.
2) They could handle much higher pressures.
3) You could carry a spare tire.
3½) Some people say they roll better, some people say they don't, I give this a half because it's personal opinion.

The cost of the advantages:

1) They are much harder to repair, many people for a long time just tossed the tubular tire when it punctured.
2) They are insanely priced these days.


Now the part that may get me into trouble, I think most of the advantages were dealt with years ago, modern clincher tires good to 120PSI or more are common, lighter weight clincher wheels are more common, and clincher rim technology has improved, allowing them to be stronger and lighter then ever. Aramid fibres like Kevlar® used in beads have made it possible to get a much lighter tire. Those same Kevlar beads have made it possible to make a clincher tire that can be folded for use as a spare, and the Kevlar beaded tire premium that was common a few years ago is getting smaller and smaller all the time.

RFC

I think you are dead on. I can get Vredestein clinchers from Performance for $25 that can be inflated to 160 and still provide a supple ride. And if you want to, just for fun, you can fold one up under your saddle.

Chombi

Definitely more choices for clinchers and suppsedly the newer "open tubular" designs for clinchers gets them even closer to what tubulars feel like. I do not know as I have not tried those clinchers yet, but I do know that the crudesky cheap Vittoria Rallies sure beats the ride that my Vittoria Diamante Pro clincher tires can ever give. Now, I'm mostly riding slightly more expensive (but still relatively cheap at 45 bucks each) mid priced(?) Schwalbe Milanos now with the Rallies as spares under the seat and they are a step up again over the Rallies in terms of ride and speed (much lighter tires) although they do feel a bit more fragile than rallies (had only one flat so far with them from glass shard No repairs yet, but Rally spare took it's place for now), because of what feels like thinner tread and sidewall materials. I don't ride as much as my younger ridng days, so I'm not sure in the long run if tubulars still make sense over clinchers, if you factor in more miles, but for a non-racer "recreational" rider like me, tubulars are a gift from heaven and I wish I could have doen them much earlier in my bicycling life. Unfortunately the naysayers who kept calling out the "bad" stuff about tubulars all the years I've been biking had scared me away from them.
JMOs

Chombi

zandoval 

I have loved tubulars - But that was when I was a thin young guy and riding special routes in Italy - I don't think I could afford them on the back roads that I ride here in the USA and I am not sure they could handle the abuse of my current weight - But then at my age and average speed of travel I would not really be getting the benefit they provide - It is currently better for me to trim a few pounds off my gut than to trim a few grams off my wheels - But I feel for you cause tubulars are in fact one of those few things that you can put on your bike that really does make it go faster...

slide23

Has anyone done an A-B with tubeless/tubular or tubeless/clincher?

20grit

I'll say this for tubulars... I'm still new in the whole bike maintenance game. I'm still training my hands to do tire changing in a quick manner. I won't say that I'm blazing fast at changing either but after changing some clinchers today I'll say that I could probably stretch and mount 3 tubulars to every clincher.

frenchbikefan

I just put the first set of clinchers I have ever owned on my pl-8, strange and I think I like tubulars better, more of a classic look imho.

John E

When I lived in Los Angeles, I had three bikes -- a commuter w/ heavy clinchers, a touring/transportation classic w/ midweight tubulars, and a faster bike for club rides. I had two sets of wheels for the latter -- tubulars and low-profile clinchers. When I moved to San Diego County in 1981 and discovered goat head thorns, I promptly gave up tubulars, as I simply did not have the time to patch them. I admit there is something special about the look and ride quality of tubulars, but for me it is no longer worth the hassle. Having said that, I still toy w/ the idea of restoring Capo #2 w/ its original tubular rims ...

RobbieTunes

Good rant, Lenton, and a good point, or several.

I like older tubulars, and while they're a mess to mount, I like the feel of a glued-on tire.
I like the look, too, if I could just clean the residue off the sides of the tire. Anyone have a trick for that?

Modern tubulars are expensive, and if you choose Tufo tape to mount them, that's another $10-$12 per wheel.
It's a clean install, though.

I like the Tufo S-33 Pro a lot; they're half the $ they used to be, in black and red/black. Tough tire, rolls great.
They're $35-$40 each from the Czech Republic, but I use the tape, so you're looking at $45-$52 each.
They do last longer, though. The drawback is price, and you have to use extensions with deeper rims.

There is also my new favorite tire, the Tufo C S-33 Pro. It is a tubular clincher. Light, strong, durable.
You'd never know if from a tubular, and there's definitely a solidness to them that's lacking in the clinchers I ride.
The drawback, of course, is you have to either carry a tubular clincher spare or a tube and tire.
Many make do with sealant, instead, and a cell phone.

None of my clinchers match the confidence of looking down from over the bars at a well-glued tubular.
Or the tubular clincher, for that matter.

Some of my clinchers seem to be just waiting for the next rock, but I've got confidence in some:
GP4000's, Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comps, and Vittoria Rubino Pro's, as far as durability.
They also go on/come off well. I've lost faith in ProRace 2's and 3's due to their tendency to cut.

This year, I'm racing some skinwall Avocet Criterium K20's, so we'll see how old, fast tires really hold up.

Absolutely the worst to change are my Hutchinson Fusion Pro 2's. You need levers to get them on, or thumbs like Hulk Hogan.

gaucho777 

There are many valid pros & cons in the clinchers vs. tubulars debate. Above and beyond the ride quality and weight advantage, riding tubulars is part of the joy of this C&V hobby. Just as building with lugs is becoming an arcane art, so to me is the care and maintenance of tubulars. I do sometimes fret about getting more than one flat on a ride since I usually only carry one spare tubular, but I try to put that out of my mind and do my best to watch out for debris.

I've given up on Rally's, too. They look nice, but I was getting too many flats and bumpy seating on the rim, especially near the valve stem. For budget tubulars, I prefer to spend a few extra dollars on Continental Giros. Haven't yet tried the yellow Jersey 3/$50 deal. I'm still trying to find that perfect mid-range tubular. My complaint with many high end tubulars is the latex tubes which constantly need to be re-inflated. Anyone have a suggestion for mid- or high-range tubulars with butyl tubes which don't require daily inflation?

prettyshady

+1

vinfix

I only went back to tubulars because I got a deal on a cool pair of wheels for the vintage build I was doing. I knew the trade-offs- lighter weight, better handling & ride, vs. durability and operating expense. The roads are pretty good in my area, and I use that bike for fair weather recreation, so it works out. I use the Rallye's- they're not great but the price is right. I'd rather change a tubular in the field than a clincher- good thing, too, since I've had 3 flats over 3 years & 1500-2000 miles. When that happens it's time to carefully ride home on the spare.

Back in the day, I used Wolber Invulnerables, they had a metal mesh in them. Too bad they don't make 'em any more. Between those, and tire savers, I had good luck.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2010/1...-and-pressure/

Jan Heine has some interesting things to say about tire pressure, width and the illusions of higher speed. Of course this might all go out the window when you're talking about TdF and Olympic level competition, but for the rest of us....

jgedwa

First I have heard of this. Could someone explain what these are? I am surely a lunkhead, but are they tubular or clincher? A tubular that mounts on a clincher rim?

jim

sykerocker 

I've had excellent luck with the old Vittoria Rallye's over the past six years, and expect to continue to do so, although I've noticed that the number of bikes set up permanently with clinchers has been slowly growing in the garage. I think I'm at an even split now, where a couple of years ago it was 85% tubulars. Part of the reason is that I'm finally finding clinchers that are as easy to dismount/mount on the roadside as tubulars (my first few attempts were absolute bastards, teaching me to forever hate plastic tyre 'irons').

Just the same, at this time of the year, I ride clinchers exclusively - totally because I've always hated dealing with rim cement in under 45 degree F weather. Not that I've ever gotten an inordinate number of punctures in the winter, but I'm a believer in Murphy's Law.