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  1. #1
    Student of Hybrid Gearing BluesDaddy's Avatar
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    Freewheel without a derailleur?

    These are the strange ideas I concoct when I have nothing better to do... Has anyone tried a, for lack of a better term, "multi-single speed"? This would be a close-ratio, maybe straight-block freewheel and it would have to be a frame with horizontal dropouts. I wonder what the maximum range of cog sizes could be used and still keep chain tension using only the the forward-aft movement of the rear wheel in the dropouts. Then, when on the road, gearing changes would be made by stopping and moving the wheel, old-school style.

  2. #2
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    You can figure out the cog size range from the length of the dropout slot -- every inch of movement will compensate for 4 teeth. Have a look at some of the old Campagnolo Combio Corsa rigs, which I think got as far a 14-22 5-speed freewheel with no tensioning device other than the quick release mechanism. You could even combine this concept with a 46-49 ringset for half-step gearing.

    Since I like my derailleurs, my main reaction is "why bother?"
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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  3. #3
    )) <> (( illwafer's Avatar
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    i know someone who has a 2 speed. a double upfront and 2 gears in back. this allow him to use the same chain length and have a small gears to get up long hills.

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    Student of Hybrid Gearing BluesDaddy's Avatar
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    Cool, that is good info to go on... as for the "why bother?" Well, I know it doesn't makes sense but it will be a fun exercise. Also I'm looking for unique ways to eliminate external shifting for a winter bike. I've had my rear derailleur ice up in the past. Ultimately I would like to combine this idea with a 3-speed hub.
    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    You can figure out the cog size range from the length of the dropout slot -- Since I like my derailleurs, my main reaction is "why bother?"

  5. #5
    Student of Hybrid Gearing BluesDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illwafer View Post
    i know someone who has a 2 speed. a double upfront and 2 gears in back. this allow him to use the same chain length and have a small gears to get up long hills.
    Another great idea!

  6. #6
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Rivendell did this with their Quickbeam (track dropouts). An ugly double up front and a White Industries ENO two-speed freehweel. Four gears.



    Last edited by ColonelJLloyd; 02-19-11 at 02:09 PM.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member sauze's Avatar
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    wow and ugly double indeed, I love pretty much everything else about that bike / gearing.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauze View Post
    wow and ugly double indeed, I love pretty much everything else about that bike / gearing.
    I'm sure the bike pictured cost every bit of $2,000.
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  9. #9
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    Somewhere on Sheldon Brown's site he talks about a friend who's got a triple in front and a triple in back and he runs it fixed. The difference between the front gears is the same as the difference between the back gears so the chain length is the same and the chainline is always good.
    I have spoken.

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    Dingle cog for fixed gears: http://surlybikes.com/parts/dingle_cog/



    A few companies make a freewheel version, including White Industries and ACS:



    Neal

  11. #11
    Senior Member randyjawa's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried a, for lack of a better term, "multi-single speed"?
    Is this one of those Zen riddles?-)
    Learn how to find, restore and maintain vintage road bicycles at... MY "TEN SPEEDS"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Rivendell did this with their Quickbeam (track dropouts). An ugly double up front and a White Industries ENO two-speed freehweel. Four gears.
    I've been looking at an occassional commuter. This gives me something to consider.
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

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    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    You guys seldom cease to amaze me with your creativity. Keep thunking; it's very entertaining, for the unimaginative such as myself, to see people who push the boundaries of what a bicycle can be.
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell Iím doing; the other half, Iím sure of it.

  14. #14
    Senior Member shipwreck's Avatar
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    I did it with an AW hub. Twenty and a sixteen. Don't change it much, unless I am doing a multi day ride that changes terrain from day to day, its not hard to move, but not something that you do right in front of a hill.


    This is a hard ridden bike, so exuse the oil and grime.
    The dust plate is in place, some folks assume I had to remove it, but everything worked fine.

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    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Rivendell did this with their Quickbeam (track dropouts). An ugly double up front and a White Industries ENO two-speed freehweel. Four gears.
    Pretty harsh, calling the venerable sugino xd "ugly". The ugliness, imo, is coming from the bash-ring part of it. Otherwise, the crank'd look pretty nice for a 5-bolt 4-arm.

    -rob

  16. #16
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
    Dingle cog for fixed gears:
    Um.. What a great idea. I have a 46-49 crankset that's just begging for one of these
    I have spoken.

  17. #17
    RFC
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    I used a conversion kit to build a 2 speed on my "path racer." One gear for street and one for dirt trails.






  18. #18
    Student of Hybrid Gearing BluesDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
    I did it with an AW hub. Twenty and a sixteen.
    Okay, that brings up something I hadn't thought of... Where is the "freewheel" element of a Sturmey-Archer, inside or at the cog? If it's inside, then does that mean any fixed cog (or double cog like the one nlerner posted) will work?

  19. #19
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
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    On a SA hub it freewheels on the inside.

    Joel, I might have a very close ration freewheel you could try this on.
    Bob
    Dreaming of Summertime in NH!

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  20. #20
    hi YoKev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDaddy View Post
    Okay, that brings up something I hadn't thought of... Where is the "freewheel" element of a Sturmey-Archer, inside or at the cog? If it's inside, then does that mean any fixed cog (or double cog like the one nlerner posted) will work?
    The freewheel element of the AW is in the hub itself. Sometime in the mid-50's, Sturmey Archer stopped using a threaded on cog and switched over to a circlip retained cog. Someone else should verify that you can use a track cog on the older ones, but I have been led to believe that you can.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Rivendell did this with their Quickbeam (track dropouts). An ugly double up front and a White Industries ENO two-speed freehweel. Four gears.



    But it's only two if you ignore the anti-crosschaining rule ....

  22. #22
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
    You guys seldom cease to amaze me with your creativity. Keep thunking; it's very entertaining, for the unimaginative such as myself, to see people who push the boundaries of what a bicycle can be.
    Considering the old Cambio, it's more like they're rediscovering old boundaries that were left behind.

    The icing is a consideration, but what about a shield on the rear mech, and a front splash guard, if fenders are beyond the pale.

  23. #23
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
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    Well, build one, then climb up a mountain, try to loosen the wingnuts in a blizzard to adjust gears, bust your knuckles and invent the quick release. It has been done before

  24. #24
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    Pretty harsh, calling the venerable sugino xd "ugly". The ugliness, imo, is coming from the bash-ring part of it. Otherwise, the crank'd look pretty nice for a 5-bolt 4-arm.

    -rob
    That's the whole point, Rob. That is the crank they sell with the Quickbeam. The bashguard is integral. I think it's ugly. It's just an opinion, dude.

    As for being harsh; it's an inanimate object. It has no feelings to hurt. I told it that its mother is a hamster and its father smells of elderberries. No reaction. Nothing.

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  25. #25
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
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    Up close, it looks better than it did at a distance, IMO.
    Bob
    Dreaming of Summertime in NH!

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