Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Senior Member rivas7200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Is this a Schwinn Paramount?

    I posted this on the "What's It Worth" category but I think it might be answered here as well.

    The seller claims it is a Schwinn Paramount that he has repainted. He says it was originally red.
    What do you guys think? And what would you say is a ballpark figure for it? It needs a chain and a derailleur cable and looks like some bar wrap.
    If I buy I plan on installing components I already have, so I would be mostly buying this bike for the frame set and selling the parts I don't want.
    Thanks!






    Last edited by rivas7200; 04-12-11 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boulder County, CO
    My Bikes
    '79 Gios, '80 Masi, '06 Felt, early '60s Frejus
    Posts
    2,455
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No, it's not a Paramount. It looks like a a nice mid-level sport bike that probably went for $500-600 when it was new. The lugwork on most Japanese made frames of that period was quite nice at any price point, but the cut of the lugs, the fork bend, the overall profile, and the visible componentry (seat post and crankset) are wrong for a Paramount.

  3. #3
    Senior Member rivas7200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for your response.

    From what I have read, the Paramounts of that period were only sold as a frameset.

  4. #4
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southern Florida
    My Bikes
    http://www.theheadbadge.com
    Posts
    22,731
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No steel Paramount of any generation ever sported stay caps that look exactly like those.

    EDIT: Disregard, see below.

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 04-12-11 at 11:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, it is a Waterford Paramount frame, late 80's - early 90's. Built with OS tubeset. Read my comments in your other thread.

  6. #6
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    No steel Paramount of any generation ever sported stay caps that look exactly like those.

    -Kurt
    Well, the caps do look long, but I wonder if that's a lighting issue. The seat cluster is right for the OS Waterford Paramount frames.

  7. #7
    Velocommuter Commando Sirrus Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    My Bikes
    '88 Specialized Sirrus, '89 Alpine Monitor Pass, two '70 Raligh Twenties, '07 Schwinn Town & Country Trike, '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid
    Posts
    2,540
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
    No, it's not a Paramount. It looks like a a nice mid-level sport bike that probably went for $500-600 when it was new. The lugwork on most Japanese made frames of that period was quite nice at any price point, but the cut of the lugs, the fork bend, the overall profile, and the visible componentry (seat post and crankset) are wrong for a Paramount.
    I'll take a shot in the dark. Back in '87-88 I had a buddy that had a Centurion Dave Scott Ironman in that color. That would make it Japanese and the right color, and price point.
    Riding 19 Years of Specialized Sirrus Tradition.
    Live in Houston? Come to http://bicyclecommutehouston.blogspot.com/
    1988 Specialized Sirrus, 1989 Alpine Monitor Pass MTB, 2007 Specialized Sirrus 700C hybrid, 2007 Schwinn Town & Country trike, 1970 "Resto-Improved" Raleigh 20, 1970 "WIP" Raleigh 20, and 1980 "WIP" Schwinn Town & Country trike

  8. #8
    Decrepit Member Scooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Francisco California
    My Bikes
    2007 Waterford 953 RS-22
    Posts
    8,531
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Try to get the serial number from the seller.

    Where in California are you?
    - Stan

  9. #9
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southern Florida
    My Bikes
    http://www.theheadbadge.com
    Posts
    22,731
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Yes, it is a Waterford Paramount frame, late 80's - early 90's. Built with OS tubeset. Read my comments in your other thread.
    Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

    -Kurt

  10. #10
    Decrepit Member Scooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Francisco California
    My Bikes
    2007 Waterford 953 RS-22
    Posts
    8,531
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

    -Kurt
    It's after 1:00 in the morning. Why aren't you asleep?
    - Stan

  11. #11
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

    -Kurt
    They rusted off. Kinda like what's happening on this one I have:


  12. #12
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

    -Kurt
    Or it's internally routed like on an Asian built PDG Series. tugrul makes the case in the other thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...winn-Paramount
    Last edited by JunkYardBike; 04-13-11 at 05:34 AM. Reason: tugrul, not tugral

  13. #13
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    14,920
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    JYB is right. Seat lugs the same on the Waterford-built PDG OS Paramounts and the Asian-built PDG OS Series Paramounts. Tange OS tubing on the Asian-built models, TruTemper OS and other OS tubing on the Waterford models, I believe.

    Bright red could be a 92 Series 2. The decal package and the "soft" red paint tore up easily, and because the decals were very large 1-piece types, once they started to go, the bike's appearance went downhill quickly. If I could get decals, I'd paint mine in a heartbeat.

    Dark red could be an 89 Waterford OS, but the decals and paint on that model were hardier, so the need for a repaint would likely not be as great.

    Either way, cool frame, someone else already painted it, and it's an excellent rider.
    I really like the forks on the Series models. Not so much the crown, but the shape of the legs and the ride.
    Last edited by RobbieTunes; 04-13-11 at 05:38 AM.
    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
    You will not believe how fast I used to be...

    1979 Centurion Semi Pro
    1982 Lotus Classique
    1986 De Rosa Professional SLX
    1987 D'Arienzo (Basso)
    1988 Miele
    1995 Hot Tubes TT
    1998 Kestrel KM 40 Airfoil
    2006 Cinelli XLR8R-2
    2011 Eddy Merckx EMX3
    2014 Wraith Hustle

  14. #14
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southern Florida
    My Bikes
    http://www.theheadbadge.com
    Posts
    22,731
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
    It's after 1:00 in the morning. Why aren't you asleep?
    Because I was trying to ID Campagnolo parts at the same time. Refer to the Whisky Tango Foxtrot thread.

    -Kurt

  15. #15
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boulder County, CO
    My Bikes
    '79 Gios, '80 Masi, '06 Felt, early '60s Frejus
    Posts
    2,455
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rivas7200 View Post
    What raises my suspicion is the manner in which the capped seat stays are brazed to the lower edge of the seat cluster. On top quality frames with capped stays, the stays are attached at the more substantial part of the lug, where the top tube is fishmouthed to the seat tube, and level with the seat post bolt, like this.

  16. #16
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
    What raises my suspicion is the manner in which the capped seat stays are brazed to the lower edge of the seat cluster. On top quality frames with capped stays, the stays are attached at the more substantial part of the lug, where the top tube is fishmouthed to the seat tube, and level with the seat post bolt, like this.
    I wondered about that too, but look at his PDG Series frame:



    Not exactly conclusive, but looks lower to me than the image you've got there. Some of the PDG Series owners here can probably provide better photos.

  17. #17
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Scooper definitely offered the most sage advice, however. The S/N will tell all.

  18. #18
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southern Florida
    My Bikes
    http://www.theheadbadge.com
    Posts
    22,731
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Because it's an PDG series frame with oversized tubing. The second discussion of this frame in the valuations forum has pegged it already: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...winn-Paramount

    -Kurt

  19. #19
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boulder County, CO
    My Bikes
    '79 Gios, '80 Masi, '06 Felt, early '60s Frejus
    Posts
    2,455
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    I wondered about that too, but look at his PDG Series frame:

    Learn something every day. Thanks, Junkyard.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •