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Old 04-12-11, 10:36 PM   #1
rivas7200
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Is this a Schwinn Paramount?

I posted this on the "What's It Worth" category but I think it might be answered here as well.

The seller claims it is a Schwinn Paramount that he has repainted. He says it was originally red.
What do you guys think? And what would you say is a ballpark figure for it? It needs a chain and a derailleur cable and looks like some bar wrap.
If I buy I plan on installing components I already have, so I would be mostly buying this bike for the frame set and selling the parts I don't want.
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Old 04-12-11, 10:50 PM   #2
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No, it's not a Paramount. It looks like a a nice mid-level sport bike that probably went for $500-600 when it was new. The lugwork on most Japanese made frames of that period was quite nice at any price point, but the cut of the lugs, the fork bend, the overall profile, and the visible componentry (seat post and crankset) are wrong for a Paramount.
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Old 04-12-11, 10:58 PM   #3
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Thanks for your response.

From what I have read, the Paramounts of that period were only sold as a frameset.
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Old 04-12-11, 10:59 PM   #4
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No steel Paramount of any generation ever sported stay caps that look exactly like those.

EDIT: Disregard, see below.

-Kurt
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Old 04-12-11, 11:00 PM   #5
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Yes, it is a Waterford Paramount frame, late 80's - early 90's. Built with OS tubeset. Read my comments in your other thread.
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Old 04-12-11, 11:02 PM   #6
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No steel Paramount of any generation ever sported stay caps that look exactly like those.

-Kurt
Well, the caps do look long, but I wonder if that's a lighting issue. The seat cluster is right for the OS Waterford Paramount frames.
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Old 04-12-11, 11:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
No, it's not a Paramount. It looks like a a nice mid-level sport bike that probably went for $500-600 when it was new. The lugwork on most Japanese made frames of that period was quite nice at any price point, but the cut of the lugs, the fork bend, the overall profile, and the visible componentry (seat post and crankset) are wrong for a Paramount.
I'll take a shot in the dark. Back in '87-88 I had a buddy that had a Centurion Dave Scott Ironman in that color. That would make it Japanese and the right color, and price point.
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Old 04-12-11, 11:12 PM   #8
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Try to get the serial number from the seller.

Where in California are you?
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Old 04-12-11, 11:12 PM   #9
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Yes, it is a Waterford Paramount frame, late 80's - early 90's. Built with OS tubeset. Read my comments in your other thread.
Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

-Kurt
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Old 04-12-11, 11:14 PM   #10
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Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

-Kurt
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Old 04-12-11, 11:18 PM   #11
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Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

-Kurt
They rusted off. Kinda like what's happening on this one I have:

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Old 04-12-11, 11:23 PM   #12
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Didn't catch the forged ears; you're right. Where are the top tube cable braze-ons though?

-Kurt
Or it's internally routed like on an Asian built PDG Series. tugrul makes the case in the other thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...winn-Paramount

Last edited by JunkYardBike; 04-13-11 at 05:34 AM. Reason: tugrul, not tugral
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Old 04-13-11, 05:28 AM   #13
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JYB is right. Seat lugs the same on the Waterford-built PDG OS Paramounts and the Asian-built PDG OS Series Paramounts. Tange OS tubing on the Asian-built models, TruTemper OS and other OS tubing on the Waterford models, I believe.

Bright red could be a 92 Series 2. The decal package and the "soft" red paint tore up easily, and because the decals were very large 1-piece types, once they started to go, the bike's appearance went downhill quickly. If I could get decals, I'd paint mine in a heartbeat.

Dark red could be an 89 Waterford OS, but the decals and paint on that model were hardier, so the need for a repaint would likely not be as great.

Either way, cool frame, someone else already painted it, and it's an excellent rider.
I really like the forks on the Series models. Not so much the crown, but the shape of the legs and the ride.
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Old 04-13-11, 07:33 AM   #14
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It's after 1:00 in the morning. Why aren't you asleep?
Because I was trying to ID Campagnolo parts at the same time. Refer to the Whisky Tango Foxtrot thread.

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Old 04-13-11, 09:43 AM   #15
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What raises my suspicion is the manner in which the capped seat stays are brazed to the lower edge of the seat cluster. On top quality frames with capped stays, the stays are attached at the more substantial part of the lug, where the top tube is fishmouthed to the seat tube, and level with the seat post bolt, like this.
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Old 04-13-11, 09:53 AM   #16
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What raises my suspicion is the manner in which the capped seat stays are brazed to the lower edge of the seat cluster. On top quality frames with capped stays, the stays are attached at the more substantial part of the lug, where the top tube is fishmouthed to the seat tube, and level with the seat post bolt, like this.
I wondered about that too, but look at his PDG Series frame:



Not exactly conclusive, but looks lower to me than the image you've got there. Some of the PDG Series owners here can probably provide better photos.
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Old 04-13-11, 09:56 AM   #17
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Scooper definitely offered the most sage advice, however. The S/N will tell all.
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Old 04-13-11, 10:04 AM   #18
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Because it's an PDG series frame with oversized tubing. The second discussion of this frame in the valuations forum has pegged it already: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...winn-Paramount

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Old 04-13-11, 05:04 PM   #19
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I wondered about that too, but look at his PDG Series frame:

Learn something every day. Thanks, Junkyard.
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