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Old 05-27-11, 04:53 PM   #1
mferwerda
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Italian 1980's 10 speed identity

Hi,
I purchased this bike used in 1989, it has been repainted, and I was wondering if there was any hope of being able to identify the maker. I remember being told it was Italian when I purchased it. Any thoughts appreciated.
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File Type: jpg bicycle 004.JPG (92.6 KB, 51 views)
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Old 05-27-11, 05:04 PM   #2
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Closer shots of the components may help - unless you are relatively sure they are not original. Nice headtube lugs!
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Old 05-27-11, 05:28 PM   #3
mferwerda
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The shift levers are Campagnolo, as is the Front derailleur, the rear derailleur was a Campagnolo, but has been replaced. The front wheel is original to when I bought it,it is a “Toro”, the rear wheel is a replacement. The brakes are Universals. I do not see any brand on the cranks. Quick release are Gnutti.
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Last edited by mferwerda; 05-27-11 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 05-27-11, 05:44 PM   #4
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Cottered cranks, coned seat stay ends, and generic Universals all look early 70s to me.

Is the rear brake mount a tube or solid square plate?

BTW - it you want to part out the front brake, I might be interested.
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Old 05-27-11, 06:00 PM   #5
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The rear brake mount is a tube. I swapped in some Dia Compe center pulls when I put on the fenders. If you can make use of the Universals, you can have them.
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Old 05-27-11, 07:12 PM   #6
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I'm still thinking early 70s. The Gnuttis would fit that era also. Its a shame you don't have the original RD. The various models are well documented online, and would nail down the date for sure. Quite frankly, that it broke would suggest something like a Valentino.

You also could look at the freewheel. See if its a Mallard, and if so, try to identify the type by checking the socket pattern.

Although I have seen bike boom imports whose best feature is elegant head tube lugs, I've not seen nice windowed ones like you have. If you have forged dropouts, check the Classic Rendezvous site and see if you can match those lugs. If they are stamped it could be anyone and probably not worth tracking down. Back then, everyone wanted to cash in on the bike boom, and importers were springing up like weeds to satisfy.

I'll PM you over the weekend about the universals. The front one is prone to breaking, so swapping them out was a good move!
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Old 05-27-11, 08:20 PM   #7
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The lugs look similar to the ones on my Rossignoli (see link below). Mine has the original Campagnola rear derailleur, which dates it to 1964-1967. Mine has Campagnola dropouts as well. I originally posted mine in the "whats it worth" section and got little interest or info. Maybe it was too obscure. I did find out that the Rossignoli bike still exists in Milano Italy and they do/did sell bikes under their own name. I never have been able to determine whether they constructed frames on site, or purchase them from an outside supplier. If anyone has more info on Rossignoli bikes, I would be interested in hearing it. I've tried to contact the shop in Italy for info and replacement decals. I thought they were going to send some my way, per the message ran thru an online interpreter software, but maybe I miss understood.

http://s448.photobucket.com/albums/qq208/vwfulton/rossignoli%201970%20%20bike/?action=view&current=IMG_3500.jpg#!oZZ1QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs448.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq208 %2Fvwfulton%2Frossignoli%25201970%2520%2520bike%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DIMG_3500.jpg

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Old 05-27-11, 08:40 PM   #8
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Thanks, googling images for Rossignoli sure does look like the lug patterns match.
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Old 05-27-11, 09:47 PM   #9
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I don't remember this lug pattern or component group in the Vicenza/Venito area in the early 70s - Milan had some bikes that looked like this and used by locals for commuting - There were allot of them and I remember the bullet like pattern under the seat - At that time they were going for about $79.00 American - You did not see these bikes on the weekend rides though - If Rossignoli is in Milano then that might be it...
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Old 05-27-11, 10:39 PM   #10
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mferwerda... how does it ride? My Rossignoli doesn't have the "bullet" end design for the seat stay, but then again, I've seen one or two Rossignoli frames on the web that had similar head tube lugs and "spoon" lug ends, but different seat stay end treatments. Zandoval, did you live in Italy in the early seventies?
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Old 05-27-11, 11:48 PM   #11
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Uncle - Yes, I was in the US Army stationed at Vicenza Italy - It was there that I got into Road Bikes - It was fun - One thing that always amazed or rather humbled me was 60 year old Itallians kiking my arse on a 100 Kilometer rides in the Berric hills - Riding with the old guys I never felt out of place and they were always considerate of me riding along - Of course Italians my own age would have nothing to do with me - But that was OK - The old guys were much more fun - And me being a medic gave them a little security...
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Old 05-28-11, 06:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
I don't remember this lug pattern or component group in the Vicenza/Venito area in the early 70s - Milan had some bikes that looked like this and used by locals for commuting - There were allot of them and I remember the bullet like pattern under the seat - At that time they were going for about $79.00 American - You did not see these bikes on the weekend rides though - If Rossignoli is in Milano then that might be it...
My first thought is that lug types, in and of themselves, are rarely identifiers for Italian bikes, as frame materials in Italy tended to be used widely. This makes sense if you consider that the alternative would have been to have lugs specially made, which few builders could afford. Other build features, or the particular way the materials are used and combined often provides the clues. Of course, particular styles could easily be common to specific regions, as you note. Given the number of makers in Italy, my hunch is that a number of producers could have been the origin of the OP's bike - which is not to say it's not a Rossignoli, only to say that in my experience the lug and seatstay style alone are not often enough to pin down a bike's identity in the absence of other clues.
On C&V, you see a lot of "hey, those lugs look like the one's on my ______ ." This sometimes points us in the right direction, but is rarely definitive, at least when it comes to bikes from Italy.
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Old 05-28-11, 07:22 AM   #13
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I did some image searching and the link below is he closest match that I could find. The number stamp on the frame is a similar location, the lug pattern is a match. The front fork pattern matches, and the top cap on the front fork is chromed, as is mine, even though mine is painted over. The bullet end seat stays are a bit different. Since, as it has been stated, many manufacturers might have used the same lugs, it is only a best guess, but probably as close as I can get. Appreciate all the help.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tovey-moulton/page5/
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