joe englert

ok. there is a nice red primato on ebay..fairly close to me in lake tahoe. looks great except for two giant abrasions on the top tube. was wondering what caused that? dont really trust the seller for an answer. no dents just two big round sections that have no paint at all on them. you can check out the pics on ebay and see for yourself. id be kind of interested in it except for those. i dont think touch up paint would work. other than that the bike looks pristine.

khatfull

Since the seller is the only person who can give you an answer asking us does little. This also begs the question: Why are you so suspicious of the seller?

I guess I'm confused.

That said, if I were in the market for a Primato those abrasions wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I would pay for a paint match and have a spray can made.

afilado

The chemicals in the tape adhesive weakened the paint underneath. When the tape was removed the affected paint came with it.

Seller seems pretty forthcoming, even listing his phone number.

J

bigbossman 

With a starting bid of $1150 and a shipping of $125, it would be for me. That's too much for a bike that is cosmetically beat, Primato or no.

khatfull

I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't let that damage be the determining factor as I think it could be repaired quite nicely with a bit of effort. The OP would have to decide if that effort is worth it in light of other factors concerning the bike, price included. Given he's somewhat local he might be able to 1) see the bike beforehand and 2) avoid shipping charges.

gomango

There are at least two painters in the Twin Cities that could take care of that pronto.

Couple hundred for Kvale or Anderson I'd guess.

Seller's price will need to reflect this defect though.

The one in question here is too small for me, and frankly, I'd only buy a Primato that is spot on.

I'll pay for "zero" issues.

KonAaron Snake 

I'm a potential bidder on that and if it goes under 1200, you can have a PERFECT Primato post-repaint for 1500ish. It also has a great group on it.

gomango

Would be a nice rider, most likely.

I'd really want to get "eyes" on that bike.

May well be a nice bike other than the paint.

I've already got a frame in for paint, and it is amazing how fast the details add up.

KonAaron Snake 

So true...and it's no longer original. I heavily doubt I'll bid, but I would like to add a De Rosa and a Primato, Titiano or 1987 SIgnature are the only models I'm considering.

I did a half century on the Marnati yesterday (I know it's not that much, but for me, right now, it represents an accomplishment) and I'm firmly of the opinion that no other bike can satisfy me again.

gomango

Good man.

Mrs. Gomango and I had a great ride together yesterday out to the western metro area.

Wonderful rolling hills and plenty of scenery around Lake Minnetonka.

Aaron, just pile on the miles every chance you get.

You will never regret that time spent on your beautiful Marnati.

KonAaron Snake 

I'll betcha that Primato, missing paint or not...is going to satisfy someone's sweet spot quite nicely.

gomango

Probably.

I'm just going to stay ultra picky now that I can see the floor around here again.

I still like the earlier idea. Call the seller folks.

He gave out his phone number for a reason.

bigbossman 

Besides... it's red. >yawn<

I freely admit that I'm very picky regarding cosmetics. WAY pickier than the average bear. It's not enough for me that it is a good bike and that it will ride well. I've done the patch it up/restore routine a few times, and no longer wish go through the process.

Like gomango says..... the costs add up, and there are always hidden issues waiting in the grass. Again..... to quote gomango - "I'll pay for "zero" issues".

Now, Aaron points out the group, and it is a good one with value. Selling that off would get the price down a few hundred dollars and bank some cash for the repaint. Or you can polish it up and ride it as-is. Fair enough, if you want to go through that process.

I still think that with a bit of patience you can find a nicer, more presentable Primato in the $1500-$1600 range. All this is just my opinion, but I'd rather just pay more up front and be done with it. You're gonna end up paying for it, either way.

And I know a lot of you don't dig re-paints.

KonAaron Snake 

I don't dig repaints, but a certain guy in Cali has changed my perspective somewhat. Pretty, fresh looking paint jobs are a nice thing.

It's the same old story...yes, you could wait for a better/perfect one, or you could work on this one, be done with it and have a Primato. It's a balancing act between patience and greed/enjoyment.

bigbossman 

Gee Aaron.....why not wait and search? It's not like you're bereft of bicycles.

Here's a personal insight I learned hunting wild boar over half a lifetime in the rugged and remote California coastal mountains. Once I bag one the work begins, and I find myself wishing that I were still out hunting.

The real fun is in the hunt.

KonAaron Snake 

That's why I'm probably not bagging this one...I agree that there are nicer ones out there and the hunt really is part of the fun.

Still...for someone who's dream bike is a Primato...and for someone without the collection of a gomango...this is an awfully nice rider.

bigbossman 

I get that. A few years ago I would have picked it up and done it. I'll even go so far as to say that you probably wouldn't go wrong doing that with this bike, assuming it is in otherwise good trim.

Here's the thing though - you just know it's not going to go for near $1200. So - if it goes for say, $1400, is it still worth it? Hmmmm.......

Watch it and see. Put a snipe bid in for $1225, even. I bet your money will still be in the bank after auction's end.

gomango

Somewhere in the Midwest there is another Primato with my name on it.

I've managed to unearth two of these beauties in the last year for riding buddies.

I just rode one of them this afternoon.

Neither of these needed a thing other than new tires, tubes, and brake pads.

...and both were priced well under the red one under discussion here.

Once they get to eBay, all hades can break out as far as pricing goes.

I just can't get into price wars, so I'll have to be exceedingly patient.

A forum member offered me one a little over a year ago at a point when cash flow was bad.

Still kicking myself over that, but what can you do?

KonAaron Snake 

It sold for $1150 and had one bid. On reflection, I'm glad the bidder wasn't me, but I'm also sure the person got one heck of a bike!

cpsqlrwn

Update on the Primato..... It was relisted this morning with the seller claiming it was because he had listed the size improperly. I've spent some time on the phone with the seller and here is the skinny as far as I know. And before I begin let me just say "Don't kill the messenger". This is the seller's story and he's sticking to it!

The paint damage was done by a bike stand clamp and he put the tape on it to protect the metal from the elements. Whether the tape increased the area of the damage, who knows! He has had the bike for 4 years and it was damaged (except untaped) when he got it. It's a great rider (duh!). He says it was a professional racer's bike (speced to the racer's desires) which explains the lack of a tubing decal in spite of all the other decals being in fine condition. Certainly it's a Primato, but it's possibly a very early one since it has no chrome lugs or fork crown, which might make Columbus Brain tubing a possibilty rather than EL-OS. Either way it would be a great rider I'm sure and the tubing should not be an issue. I can tell by talking to him that he would prefer to sell it privately (no eBay commissions) and I personally think that is why he relisted it. To me, there's the possibility that the 1 bid was a shill bid. It was a bid by a 2 feedback buyer and I know he has a son here in Norfolk who could have easily bid on it for him. I have three of these since I bought this frame and fork two weeks back.....



but even if I didn't have any, I don't know that I'd be reaching for this one. If I could lay my hands on it prior to buying and feel that top tube and take a good look at the bike overall, I might think about it, but from a distance this is a bit of a crap shoot. I say save up for something a little less questionable unless you can actually go have a look.

KonAaron Snake 

I think it might be time to ask if anyone is in the area and can take a look for us. The bike is on Incline Village, NV.

It looks like OS tubing to me...did Genius make an OS tubing?

longbeachgary

"A few chips in the paint here and there but not really an issue"

Appears to be dishonest to me. Those are not paint chips. Was it covered with high quality duct tape to protect the bike or to hide the fact that it was damaged? I'd pass - if he's dishonest about this what else is he dishonest about.

bigbossman 

That would be up in the Lake Tahoe area.

Incline Village is basically a town of of vacation condos clustered around a ski resort. There ain't much around there in terms of being "in the area" ..... the closest BF member would probably be Joe in the general Sacramento area or else someone in Reno. Either way, someone will have to drive up one slope or other of the Sierra to go take a look....... either that, or happen to be going on vacation in that area.

KonAaron Snake 

The money is too much risk for my blood...though I don't agree with the seller being dishonest. I think poorly informed would be a better description.

cpsqlrwn

Aaron, that's my screw up. I edited my post. I meant Brain tubing and got mixed up. Genius was the first Nivacrom tubing but it had different shaped tubes (ovalized at the BB) while Brain, a predecessor to EL-OS and also a Nivacrom tubing, was standard oversized like EL-OS and is actually a very good alternative to EL-OS, being only 0.1 mm different in sizing, 0.8 at the butts drawn to 0.5 versus 0.7 drawn down to 0.4 for EL-OS. Below is a good summary of Nivacrom tubing from the Torelli website. As you can see, the only difference between Neuron, another excellent tubing, and EL-OS is that Neuron is drawn done to 0.5 while EL-OS is drawn down to 0.4. They are both 0.7 on the mid tubing runs between the butts.

Brain OS (0.8-0.5-0.8) is no longer in the Columbus catalogue. However, they do draw it upon request for some builders. For some very big frames, it can be useful. It was replaced by....+

Zona (0.7-0.5-0.7). In order to offer a tubing only 0.7mm at the butt, Columbus developed a reduced price Nivacrome that is 1000 Newtons/square meter tensile strength. This compares to the 900 used in Brain OS (and old SLX) and 1200 used in EL-OS, Genius, and our Torelli/Nemo 747.

Neuron (0.7-0.5-0.7). This is a very sophisticated tubing, much finer that one would guess from the 0.5mm wall thickness. Columbus pulled out almost all the stops to make a lightweight 0.5mm tubing, using zone butting, elliptical butting, the works. The result is a tubing that is lightweight, yet very stiff. Mondonico continues to offer frames made of Neuron because it makes a good, stiff, light frame. This tubing still has a very devoted following among serious steel frame lovers.

Genius, EL-OS. (0.7-0.4-0.7). These sophisticated tubes are comparable to Torelli/Nemo 747 in the front triangle. They exceed Torelli/Nemo specification in the rear triangle. These tubesets have double-butted chainstays that are drawn down to 0.4mm. We were not able to offer that in our tubeset and keep the price as low as we wanted. EL-OS is no longer in the Columbus catalogue, but Mondonico has it drawn for his EL-OS monostay. The longer traditional butts of EL-OS offer some performance advantages. The slightly greater mass at the head tube joints make the front end of the frame a bit more stable, or as one Italian said, "robust".