Chombi

I usually add in my eBay message to the seller when paying through paypal, the statement "Please package the XXXX appropriately to avoid damage or scratches during transit". I also sometimes add "it is going towards a resotration project and it needs to be in top condition...", depending on the component being shipped. I usually get the best packaging (specially from Belgium and the UK, for some reason).

Chombi

Daveyates

Just one question.
How can a bike be sent badly if it arrived without any damage?

phoebeisis

Varvintg-I would not expect a $175+$60 shipping ebay bike to be well packed .
My experience is they aren't well packed-80% aren't.
I've bought maybe 30 bikes on Ebay-most in the $150-$200 delivered price range- but several were much more expensive.
They are dumped in an old bike box- handlebars bouncing around-wheels unsecured, not padded where the rims or hubs will contact the frame.All but one arrived undented- but probably some were slightly scratched up.
According to the OP there was some effort made to protect some components.It sounds and looked like a typical ebay bike shipping.

I save negative feedback for thieves, sneaks and liars(intentionally poor quality pictures to obscure changed out or grungy components-)- not for undamaged items that arrive as described.Neutral- maybe- but not negative.

"(I had been hoping it was the '79 with Vitus 172, but this one has Vitus 888- which was right there in the description. I did not pay enough attention to it)."
I said I thought the OP was pissed about the cheaper tube set because he wrote the above in the first few lines of his first post. It has nothing to do with the marginal packing, but he mentions it before he mentions what he is really concerned about. He mentioned it,so I figured he was pissed about it.(I would have been pissed -outsmarted myself more times than I care to think of )

Varvintg- if you buy a bike on ebay- because you love the bike- make sure you give the seller a few extra $$ and tell him how -in detail- you want it packed.
Now if it a $2000 super duper whatever- not necessary to send extra $$ (probably-since the seller will know it is an expensive item that requires care)- but if it is a $500 nice vintage bike- it is just an "old bike" to the seller. Make sure you let him know you think it is very important that it be packed carefully-$$ talks.
Many sellers think since a bike is made from metal- it doesn't need careful packing.

The shipping charge for the OP's bike was $63- $63 is what actual shipping costs- no handling or packaging materials cost in that $63.
Experience has taught me that folks will not spend 2 hours packing a $300 bike.
It takes AT LEAST 2 HOURS TO PROPERLY DISASSEMBLE AND PACK A BIKE -in a used bike box.You end up cutting up strips of cardboard for padding-zip ties- tape- it all takes time- you have to pad every sharp part- attach hard parts to the frame with padding-so they can't bounce into the frame- or crush it-the padding has to be thick and broad- takes 2 hours at least.


Tell the seller what you want-and pay a bit more if a bike is dear to you.

What feedback can you leave for a really slimy seller if you leave this typical seller a negative??

phoebeisis

Chombi's idea is good- let the seller know it is important to you-and is delicate.
Many sellers aren't bike people-they see metal and assume it can't be damaged.
I usually add a few $$ also-when it is important to me- not for a bike I'm selling to make $40.

I've haven't sold on ebay in 2 years or so- just buy.
I never sold bikes in that price range on ebay(I occasionally sold much more expensive one)- it is pointless to sell cheap bikes on Ebay with CL being free and no shipping problems

VarVintg

Makes sense to me, and that was kind of my point as well. You get what you pay for. I will however say that I have worked very closely with UPS, Fed Ex, DHL and the USPO, inside many of their operations. It is a wonder that some items ever make it to their destination undamaged. Those parcels go through so many conveyor belts, machines, hands, planes, trucks, and what have you, that it really is amazing they can travel so far undamaged, no matter how well they are packed. Think I'll stick to my garage, thrift store picking for now, but I still think alr got themselves a cool bike. Looking forward to some pics when its assembled.

SV

snarkypup

The same way someone can jump off a very high ledge and not break their leg: luck. Just because something wasn't broken this time, doesn't mean that it was the right way to do something. And when I pay what is being asked for shipping, I expect someone to take the time to do a decent job. Doesn't have to be perfect, just honestly decent. I realize bad things happen in transit, but the item should be reasonably protected against normal shipping damage, and this doesn't appear to have been.

Case in point: when I sold the Panasonic, I could have just put it in a box and sent it, but I didn't. I paid the bike shop to take it apart, pack it extra nicely, and send it. The buyer simply paid "for shipping," and I asked for a certain amount that would cover the necessary steps for it to arrive safely. This is not just because I loved that bike, but because I'm an honest person: if I ship something to you, it will be decently packed. If I don't know how to pack it decently, I'll pay someone else to do it who does, and charge you up front, accordingly.

None of this is rocket science. If you sell something on the internet, you better be prepared to ship it in a reasonably protected package. If not, that's why god invented Craigslist.

snarkypup

My ex worked for UPS as a sorter for years. He told me lots of horror stories about employees deliberately kicking packages when they were overwhelmed with boxes, about boxes being tossed, ripped and dropped on purpose, about items being stolen from boxes that had ripped...

All the more reason to pack things well.

Chombi

Look at it this way. Each person has their own idea on what is appropriate and what does not make the cut. You have to realize you need to work with a certain amount of tolerance when dealing with all sorts of people out there as some of them really honestly think they have done what is expected of them........ you know, just like that teen son or daughter who really thinks that cleaning up their room means just picking up their underwear and socks from the floor and leaving the rest of their junk all over the place. It sometimes comes down to difference in perception and not neccessarily that the other party really meant some sort of malice.
the bike was delivered without damage and why not just move on and then take the suggested additional precautions the next time. Getting into a big dispute with seller about a negative rating at this point is just not worth it IMO. Now if the bike was damaged, then it would be an entirely different story.......
JMOs

Chombi

Daveyates

It was reasonable protected against normal shipping damage because it arrived undamaged.

VarVintg

Chombi I agree with you. Like I mentioned earlier, this discussion has been informative for some of us, and the main reason I joined this forum. The good thing is that the bike seems okay, and is probably in better hands now.

SV

3speed

Do you buy from a lot of other countries? I know things I've bought from the UK are done well, but I haven't had shipping from places other than there or the US. I attribute that to just another small point resulting from our lazy self centered society, and no one giving a ****. I'm sure things getting shipped poorly from the UK too, but I'm curious to hear from someone who's had things shipped from other countries if others are more typical of here or if it is just our lazy "don't give a ****" society.

3speed

But you don't really think the teenager actually believes that the room is then clean when there's still crap all over the place, do you? They just don't want to clean their room, so they just quick pick up the clothes and say "Fine, I cleaned it." And I don't think anyone thinks this seller meant any malice in the poor packing either. They just didn't give a **** and did a half-assed job. I'm quite confident the seller also knows that bike wasn't packed well, and again, just doesn't really give a **** enough to do it well. It's easier to just do a half assed job and hope it gets there alright. Chances are if it gets a little scratched up by floating parts the buyer isn't going to really do anything anyway, so it works out alright to pack things half-assed as long as nothing major happens often.

snarkypup

My point exactly.

And I work with teenagers, all day long. They TOTALLY KNOW. No one plays dumb better than a teenager.

frantik

yeah i knew some guys who worked at UPS.. boxes get used as footballs, soccer balls, and baseballs with the packing tubes as bats. They also got paid minimum wage but always had tons of small electronics.. strange..

pack your items like you're expecting nuclear war

phoebeisis

So we agree this wasn't a great job of packing.
We disagree on how much punishment the seller deserves.
We sorta agree that the seller should be alerted to his shortcomings.
In my experience (30 bikes received) this was an average -maybe even slightly above average-ebay packing for a bike in this price range-$235 delivered.
There are some outright liars and sneaky liars on ebay-I reserve negative feedback for them.
Many of us think it is a good idea to remind the seller that you really "like" the bike you just bought, and you want it packed with care.
I actually send another $20 or so to the seller with detailed instructions on how to pack it- emphasizing that hard parts have to be firmly attached to other hard parts so they can't bang into the hard parts.There has to be some thick broad padding between the parts-cardboard is usually cheap and available.Duct tape is a pain to clean off, but it is cheap and available-

We disagree on the punishment.
Many folks don't offer packing instructions to the seller-this must be because they are inexperienced ebay buyers of used bikes.Every ebay bike I've received has had a hole in the box(other than the hand hold).Usually the hole is from the dropouts, or the hubs.Hub holes are the most common.Usually the holes are of no consequence- it is hard parts crushing banging hard parts that scratch and dent the frame.
Charlie
PS Didn't really mean to attack the OP with the cheaper tube comments. I have done just that-misread a listing and been pissed at myself when I discovered my goof up.It felt familiar.It would have annoyed me.I would have been more likely to take a swing at the shortcomings of the seller if I was pissed.Other folks are more temperate.
New bikes-in original boxes- aren't a problem.

that_guy_zach

What a disappointing, horrible thread. Please disclose your Ebay id as you have no real idea of how EBay feedback works to save other sellers on this site the hassle of dealing with you. What you did is in no way the correct way to resolve a problem.

ColonelJLloyd 

^
I've never blocked a potential bidder, but this thread makes a case for it.

3speed

Since you feel the package received was done well and deserves no negative reaction, please disclose your account ID so that no one has to receive terribly packed items and probably damaged goods from you. Asking someone who expects a half way decently packed bike to disclose their account ID so that you don't have to deal with them is in no way the correct way to solve that problem.

ColonelJLloyd 

He didn't mention anything about the OP closing their account.

3speed

Ah. Misread. "Disclose" not just "close." My mistake. I shall edit accordingly.

snarkypup

3 speed, you said it better than I, again. If someone is going to send bikes badly packaged, and they KNOW better, well then... I wouldn't want to buy from them, either.

khatfull

This thread has been very interesting. After reading all the responses I'll still stick with this:

• I think we can all agree that this was a sub-standard job of packing a bike. To say it was a "good job for eBay" is rather irrelevant. Safe packaging is safe packaging regardless of the sales venue.
• While the bike arrived fine, fortunately for the buyer, the potential for damage was very real. We all know this by looking at the box.
• Given that potential for damage the seller certainly doesn't deserve positive feedback. When we buy an item on eBay and pay a shipping charge I personally believe that we pay for a box and packing materials suitable to the job and properly executed. I would expect the same from Amazon, Niagara Cycle, or any other online vendor I chose to do business with. That's how I conduct myself on eBay. That's how I conduct myself when executing sales here on BF. Properly and safely packing are a part of selling. Period.
• Other potential buyers SHOULD be alerted to the sellers shortcomings in packing a bike. That is the essence and purpose of the feedback system, to rate sellers on their performance and buyers on their performance. Packing and shipping are part of what a seller should be rated on.
• The OP, I believe, was within his right to leave negative feedback. I might not have chosen to do the same (I reverse an earlier post of mine).
• To leave positive feedback but mention the packing job is, IMHO, a complete bastardization of the feedback system and completely and utterly wrong.

Anyway, I always pack for WWIII so I don't worry about it

lunch money

From my expierence buying bikes on ebay this is pretty common. I've received frames that were just thrown into a box, not even a bike box. I have been lucky avioding damage, which is why a never left neg. feedback. A note stating the poor packing job with feedback should worn other buyers though. And sending sellers instructions on how to pack a bike has worked well for me.

tashi

2nd'ed. If I sold on ebay, I'd be trying to figure out how to block some you guys from bidding. I've been serving customers since I was 10, some of em are more trouble than they're worth.

snarkypup

khatfull, I like you. A man who makes a clear, bulletted list is my man. I'm in complete agreement with every point.