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  1. #1
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    C&V time-trial bikes?

    Hey all,

    I've always wanted one of the old time-trial frames from the days of curved seat tubes and 26" front wheels, but I've never even ridden one. This one's been relisted on fleebay a couple of times now, because I think his price is unrealistic for here, but it looks pretty good, and have a thing for Moser frames.

    Has anyone got any experience riding one of these on a regular basis?

    http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...#ht_500wt_1156
    Last edited by AS Collie; 06-22-11 at 04:19 AM. Reason: forgot the linK!

  2. #2
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
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    wow, that price seems pretty low for here in Holland If I'd had the money I'd have asked you to facilitate immediately!
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    It's not bad, but I think he'd need to start the bidding a little lower. To get people interested. The guys I know here who are into this sort of thing will generally hang around for the super-cheap stuff. I know of one Daccordi tt frame that was picked up for 100.

    Are these frames comfortable? Obviously not for long climbs and such, but what about a weekend ride with friends on relatively flat roads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AS Collie View Post
    It's not bad, but I think he'd need to start the bidding a little lower. To get people interested. The guys I know here who are into this sort of thing will generally hang around for the super-cheap stuff. I know of one Daccordi tt frame that was picked up for 100.

    Are these frames comfortable? Obviously not for long climbs and such, but what about a weekend ride with friends on relatively flat roads?
    I don't recall my Pinarello TT frame being uncomfortable, but that was thirty years ago.

    Can't imagine riding one anymore. Let's just say I'm not quite as streamlined........

  5. #5
    Senior Member Barchettaman's Avatar
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    It depends. A modern triathlon frame is comfortable whilst in aero if you are fit correctly, but for the majority of people a Lo-pro position does not lend itself to a long and easy day in the saddle.

    The geometry is built around a standard seat tube angle (73*) so when you get into the aerobars you stretch out and flatten your torso making your lower back muscles support your trunk. An extreme example is Obree in the Superman position, just to give you an idea of what I mean:



    The stretched out position is further exacerbated by the extremely low head tube and base bar height of a Lo-Pro. These bikes are designed for one thing only, and that is for going extremely fast in an aero tuck at the expense of comfort.


    Compare this to a ´steeper´ triathlon frame, built around a 78* ST angle, which enables the rider to keep the upper arms vertical in aero and support the trunk better, as Adriano Malori demonstrates without the bike:



    See that 90* angle from torso to upper arm, and from upper arm to forearm? That is what is currently considered the optimum fit for a long distance aero position.

    and here´s a nice picture of Sindballe, reckoned to be the gold standard as far as tri positioning is concerned:



    He can hold that position all day and run a marathon off it.

    I think a weekend ride on flat roads..... would be OK, there would be better tools for the job though, plus you would be constantly having to wait for your friends. Hope this helps!

  6. #6
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
    I think a weekend ride on flat roads..... would be OK, there would be better tools for the job though, plus you would be constantly having to wait for your friends. Hope this helps!
    Ha, thanks! Yeah, I can imagine it wouldn't be the most comfortable, but they're so cool! I think I need to buy one just to get it out of my system. One of our regular routes in mostly straight (city to beach and back) and we do it at a pretty good pace, so it might be OK for that. But I hadn't really given too much thought to the fit, which I need to do. Perhaps I'll go see it.

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
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    a daccordi for 100 e? I must spend more time on the Italian eBay then! Or, better still, start living there and learn some Italian and scour the barns of cool colnago's/legnano's/pinarello's/ALANs...
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italuminium View Post
    a daccordi for 100 e? I must spend more time on the Italian eBay then! Or, better still, start living there and learn some Italian and scour the barns of cool colnago's/legnano's/pinarello's/ALANs...
    You should! Italian eBay is a treasure trove.

  9. #9
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
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    It actually is pretty comfortable, compared to a 7" drop on a road bike. Much easier on the arms, weight is supported well, and you get good power to the pedals. Plus, it's much more aero. It freaks me out, control-wise, but that's something that can be learned easily.

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  10. #10
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Bianchigirrl has a beautiful curved TT Bertoni. I don't know if she's done any long rides on it.
    72 special CNC ______ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) _73 Holdsworth Record
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  11. #11
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    Just what are we looking at? a Moser but what kind of frame? Components? I can't read Italian but it seems the seller is only telling us what size the wheels are and how much shipping is. it sort of looks like Campi parts but maybe a mix with Modolo calipers and hoodless levers.




    IIRC some of the companies that made TT bikes for the US made two models. a real topshelf one and one for the masses with an OK Tange frame and 105ish group.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SS, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  12. #12
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
    Bianchigirrl has a beautiful curved TT Bertoni. I don't know if she's done any long rides on it.
    Thank You. no I have not done much riding at all this this year but the Dr told me yesterday I can start the 'bike to nowhere' on friday and in about three weeks my MTB on the street. I can't wait to take this fabulous machine out for a spin though.





    the front wheel in this pic is just my MTB wheel, but I do have a real nice 28h wheel for it.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SS, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  13. #13
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    Just what are we looking at? a Moser but what kind of frame? Components? I can't read Italian but it seems the seller is only telling us what size the wheels are and how much shipping is. it sort of looks like Campi parts but maybe a mix with Modolo calipers and hoodless levers.



    IIRC some of the companies that made TT bikes for the US made two models. a real topshelf one and one for the masses with an OK Tange frame and 105ish group.
    Hey Bianchigirll, this is some detective stuff! The ad is very poor; just the wheel size and telling you to collect it in person. I've asked for some bigger photos. I've never seen a Moser tt with this type of geometry – it's usually with a curved top tube. The font, which has changed slightly a few times over the years, seems the same as my 97 Moser. Components look to be campy, but that cockpit doesn't look original to me. I was admiring your Bertoni, by the way.

  14. #14
    Beach-Bound Collin2424's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    Thank You. no I have not done much riding at all this this year but the Dr told me yesterday I can start the 'bike to nowhere' on friday and in about three weeks my MTB on the street. I can't wait to take this fabulous machine out for a spin though.





    the front wheel in this pic is just my MTB wheel, but I do have a real nice 28h wheel for it.
    I am SORELY jealous of this bike. I've been searching high and low for a Bertoni, let alone a Super Record TT bike. VERY cool. Sorry for the off topic post while I go clean the drool off my keyboard...

    -Collin-

  15. #15
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collin2424 View Post
    I am SORELY jealous of this bike. I've been searching high and low for a Bertoni, let alone a Super Record TT bike. VERY cool. Sorry for the off topic post while I go clean the drool off my keyboard...

    -Collin-
    Drooling is never off topic! That bike is amazing.

  16. #16
    Go Team BH! teambhultima's Avatar
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    Agreed! Bianchigirl, your Bertoni TT is absolutely amazing! Do you know what year it is?

  17. #17
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    i love the look of the these old school TT bikes, before everyone started calling TT bikes Tri bikes these days (really hate that.) anyways, its high on my list of next projects, with luck a pinarello crono perhaps. problem with these machines are that you can't really take them out on a sunday stroll and look cool unless you're going mach 1. even on my cervelo P2C now, i feel like i get hunted down by every road bike, even when i'm just out for a easy spin.

  18. #18
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    thank you!! I think it is an '87. I don't recall exactly. one of you guys really need to show me how to do a spreadsheet or I need to figure out how to turn my apprasail form into a PDF so I can fill them out
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SS, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  19. #19
    Senior Member Barchettaman's Avatar
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    Collie, I think the rear wheel is a Spengle trispoke. I am sure the aerobar setup is an ITM - you can just make out the lettering - probably a CX2 or earlier. Nice bars if out of fashion now.

    Edit - that RW is defintiely a Spengle. Nice wheel.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Barchettaman's Avatar
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    Bianchigirl, best of luck riding that beauty around.
    It is absolutely, utterly, 100% crying out for a Shamal HPW12 front wheel in 650.

  21. #21
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    +1 on the Shamal. Those things look sweet on the right bikes.

  22. #22
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    I know nothing of these Spengles you speak of. They're good? To be honest, I know nothing of any wheel that doesn't have wire spokes.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Barchettaman's Avatar
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    Yep, solid wheel, good reputation. All the trispokes are robust with the exception of the Mavic 3G, where the braking surface has a reputation for fragility (it's basically a track wheel). Good job really as they are untruable. The Spinergy 4-spoke wheel (Rev-X?) has a reputation for self-destruction.

    There are plenty of Spengle trispokes still being used on the triathlon scene here in Germany.

    The company appears to be no more.

  24. #24
    Senior Member AS Collie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I couldn't find out anything about them online.

    Anyway, the seller's dragging his heels (or maybe his knuckles) on emailing me a proper photograph.

  25. #25
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
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    Spengle's have quite a following here. no excuse not to buy this lovely bike!
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
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