paulzinho

They are from a 1987-ish Raleigh Mattador ATB bike.
I've already cleaned, lubed, replaced pads and steel rims with alloy rims and I still can't seem to get them adjusted for aceptable performance.

What does anyone know about them?

Chombi

Dang, except for the return spring location, the mechanism sure looks basically like the ones on my Weinmann Deltas.
It's the one on the right:

I wonder if those are Weinmanns or if Weinmann copied them.

Chombi

paulzinho

I bet it is the other way around. Your brakes look more impressive and fancier than my version. Have you used Deltas? Are they good performance wise?

KonAaron Snake 

I was just thinking it looked like the bastard child of a campy delta and a Shimano AX. I'd never seen that Weinmann before...given how well <cough cough> their other brake parts worked, I'd be afraid of that thing...VERY afraid.

AX -

https://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photo..._Di2_AX_RB.jpg

Chombi

The Weinmann Deltas will go on my Vitus Carbone one day. They will match very well.........."Death frame" + "Death brakes" = C&V super thrill rides! Bwahahaha!!!

Chombi

KonAaron Snake 

LOL - I love the theme you have going there. You should leave it around for thieves to try taking

Jeff Wills

Can't help much, except I remember seeing them on cheap mountain bikes in the '80's. Bikes so cheap they didn't weld on cantilever bosses.

Those brakes have a very long arms with small cross sections. I bet if you look at them as you squeeze the lever you'll see that there's a lot of flex in the design. Also note that the rear brake has plastic bumpers on the pivot bolts- probably so the flexing calipers bear on the frame and get braced that way.

Interesting design? Yep. Well executed? Nope.

kingsting

The bolts have Lee Chi logos on them. Lee Chi brakes were on lower end bikes and they never made anything that worked too well...

Yours are at least alloy. They made these in heavy flexy steel too.

RobbieTunes

Do you have a model of a McLaren, or a Chapparall?

JohnDThompson 

They've been around for quite a while. Here's a 1911 version:



"plus ça change plus c'est la même chose..."

Chombi

Yes, a Chaparral 2


And if you like cars similar, a 1960 Maserati Birdcage

both in 1:18 scale.
I have a black longtail McLaren F1 too, but I can't get a pic of it as it is hidden from view behind other models right now.

Chombi

GrayJay

Pretty cool mechanical design really since they progressively increase the calipers mechanical advantage. Initially has a lot of travel so that pads can be setup far from rim and then the mechanical advantage ramps up for more stopping power once the brakes are actuated. The swing arc of the pads is also setup so that the pads dont get forced down off the rim. Pretty much exact opposite behavior from medium angle cantilevers.

Sixty Fiver

These were fitted to low end bikes in the 80's... they are not vert precisely made and their stopping power is rather weak.

noglider 

See if you can pick up an Atax death stem and a Viscount/Lambert death fork for that bike.

LesterOfPuppets

Those are the worst brakes ever. Came on my latest dumpster score:

Mark Kelly 

I still ride Deltas (third generation "Pentadrive" type) - I love them, so much so that when I bought and built up a new Ti frame last year I modified it to be able to use the Deltas*.

If you are careful with set-up and use decent pads on the front, they are truly great brakes - fantastic modulation and control, excellent stopping power.

They weigh a ton - almost half a kilo for the pair of calipers.

They are fussy to set up, must be kept clean and lubed to work properly.
They are a bastard to keep clean and lubed, must be removed to do it properly.
They will cost you a new Campagnolo spec cable each and every time you remove them unless you are incredibly careful.
Every time you replace the cable you need to set them up again.

* The Deltas are taller than modern brakes and can interfere with modern cable routing , particularly head tube mounted derailleur stops.

As for your brakes, I suspect that the cantilever style pads on posts are doing them no favours - the length of the post multiplies the torque arm exacerbating the flex problems noted above.

rhm

Philco "Centralpull" brakes from the 20's or 30's:

paulzinho

That makes sense since the levers are Lee Chi.

Humm, should consider swapping them out for sidepulls?

I will try to adjust them some more. First I will reduce the amount of Distance from the pad and the arm.

Those are the original pads and looks like they need non threaded posts. I have put new cantistyle pads but I will trry getting the pads closer to the arms and see how that goes. Hey I should weigh them next time they are off the bike. Yes I can see that they can damage cables easily since the cable is only held by the Center screw that presses against the cable.

noglider 

If you find yourself owning brakes like these, it's best to go through them with a hacksaw before you put them in the trash. If you don't, someone may find them in the trash and misconstrue them as useful. He'll try to use them and repeat the cycle...

paulzinho

LOL!
I did some more experimenting and it seems that they almost work adequately if the brake pad posts are pushed in towards the wheel as much as safely possible.

Now where did I put my hacksaw...

Rocket-Sauce 

You don't need 'em. All they do is slow you down.

Seriously, they are not worth anything beyond novelty. Crap.

Scrockern8r

That looks like something an engineer would build without any field testing/feedback...

Chombi

Actually, I find the slim/delicate proportions of that brakeset to be interesting. It might look real nice all polished up.
With a some adjustment/tuning up to get rid of too much drag or slack at the pivots and springs and addition of good brake cables and casings, it might actually provide some braking for the owner.

Chombi

paulzinho

Hey just an update for archve purposes.
I was looking at the bike today that came with these brakes. It'a A Raleigh ATB "matterhorn" with a double chain ring up front and a 5-speed freewheel in the back. I started ti wonder if I could replace those brakes. Guess what? You can with normal 43-53mm reach calipers. The only thing is that you need to change the rims from 26 to either 700c or 27 inch. Then it's perfect, I'm turning this bike into a ten speed with drop bars and 27inch wheels. It should look good since there are no brake bosses. I already test fitted the brakes and the 27" wheels are already on. the only problem I'm had was the rear wheel is a tight fit because of the kickstand bridge but the wheel went on when I let out some air out of the tubes.
I will post a before and after pictures when I'm done.

Jeff Wills

Good for you. In fact, very good for you. You'll stand a chance of actually stopping that Frankenbike you're building.

(Does Senator Al Franken own a bike? If he does, is it, by default, a Frankenbike?)