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Old 07-13-11, 03:31 PM   #1
Into_the_wind
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90s reynolds 853 frame, unknown manufacturer?

Okay so I've tried doing hours of reaserach and I've come up with nothing about this frame that I recently purchased. Can you guys help me out to deduce who made this frame? The frame is (supposedly) made from reynolds 853, and while I dont know if this is nessecarily true, for a steel frame, the tubes are very thin, much thinner than that of my vintage apollo. The frame also has ritchey dropouts, a very long head tube, english bb, 27.2mm seatpost clamp and is supposed to be from the 90s. Frame weight is 5.3 pounds. Also interesting is that the chain stays are boxy, not round like on most vintage frames. I know this is a long shot but after hours of looking on the internets, I've really come up with nothing. Also to note it has brazings for downtube shifters, so I'm thinking can't be from the late 90s. TThe frame has santa cruz decals on it (covered by the green painters tape), but I emailed santa cruz and they said they never made a steel frame. There is also this odd decal that says "Lookout" not too sure what that is about or what it means.









Anyways, I figure maybe someone has a similar looking bike here or at least recognizes the frame?

Thanks in advance - David
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Old 07-13-11, 03:35 PM   #2
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Oh whoops, sorry I put it in the wrong sub section...
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Old 07-13-11, 03:52 PM   #3
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5.3 pounds is too heavy for it to be made from 853 if you're talking about just the frame, no fork. I have a 29er mountain bike frame made from Reynolds 853, it has disc brake mounts welded on, has extremely long chainstays to accomodate fat 29er mountain bike tires, and has gusseting welded on to the downtube/headtube junction to add strength. The frame weighs well under five pounds. And a friend of mine has a nice road frame made from 853, the frame weighs about 3.5 pounds.
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Old 07-31-11, 01:04 PM   #4
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Sorry to bump this thread, but this bike is really driving me crazy... Anyone know anything about this??
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Old 07-31-11, 01:08 PM   #5
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if it was made in the 90's, I'm not sure many of the folks at classic and vintage would be of much help. could be wrong though.
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Old 07-31-11, 01:10 PM   #6
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If it weighs that much it's not a high end frame.
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Old 07-31-11, 01:33 PM   #7
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Okay thanks. I guess its not worth looking for the manufacturer then
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Old 07-31-11, 02:09 PM   #8
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Yeah a reynolds 853 frame should be under 4lbs.
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Old 08-01-11, 12:25 PM   #9
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Is there anyway to identify the tubing, from wall thickness or weld types? I'm thinking maybe its reynolds 531??
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Old 08-01-11, 01:21 PM   #10
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what is under all the tape? I am not sure if anyone ever built lugless 531 frames

what size seatpost does it take?
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Old 08-08-11, 10:23 AM   #11
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It takes a 27.2 mm seatpost. Under the tape the frame is black, with santacruz decals. I just took them off and it looks like they've been there for quite some time (at least a year or two) as the sticky residue is super hard to get off.
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Old 08-08-11, 10:50 AM   #12
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Just a SWAG, but could it be a Specialized Sirrus?
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Old 08-17-11, 12:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_in_Miami View Post
Just a SWAG, but could it be a Specialized Sirrus?
Looking at the geo for the specialized sirrus, it can't be. The frame has a 54 cm top tube C-T and a 56 cm D-T. More like road bike geo than hybrid. I think the headtube angle is around 73-73.5 degrees
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Old 08-17-11, 02:11 PM   #14
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I thought 853 had to be silver soldered. That implies the use of lugs, too, which this bike does not have.

If I am wrong, feel free to educate us with a quick tutorial on 853.
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Old 08-17-11, 02:31 PM   #15
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IIRC, 853 was specifically made with TIG welding in mind. Air-hardening feature strengthens as it cooled.

If that frame weighs that much, probably 4130 main tubes and 1020 high-ten triangle. Pics of the dropouts, bridges, and BB may help determination.
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Old 08-17-11, 03:00 PM   #16
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Google was my friend.

per WorldClassCycles.com

REYNOLDS 853 / 853OS info



Reynolds 853 is a high strength, 210,00 psi, heat treated, air hardened steel alloy. Careful control of the alloying elements combine to give these tubes enhanced mechanical properties surpassing other materials currently available.



The main advantage of Reynolds 853 is its ability to air harden after joining, a characteristic not shown by other chrome molybdenum / manganese molybdenum materials presently on the market. When building frames using either TIG welding or high temperature brazing, above 1600 degrees, the joints increase in strength as the frame cools to room temperature.



LUG CONSTRUCTION IS THE PREFERRED METHOD OF JOINING 853. It allows a much larger area to be heated than tig welding which concentrates the heat to a very small area at the weld. This completely goes against the “AIR HARDENING” building philosophy of the material and adds nothing to the strength of the joint. It is however a much cheaper joining method, requiring less time and skill to perform.



Due to the superior mechanical properties of 853 tubing, there are several benefits which will translate directly to the cyclist. The wall thickness of 853 has been reduced to 0.4 mm, a full 0.1 mm thinner than Reynolds other top of the line 753 tubing. This translates into a frame weight of under 3 pounds 5 ounces for a 56 cm frame (less fork). Because of the added hardness of this alloy the chances of denting the tubing are no greater than that of present materials being employed. The final significant advantage is the increased stiffness of the frame and its ability to transmit all of the cyclist power into forward motion. The oversized 853 tube set, with its oval chainstays represents the ultimate in power transmission. Aside from the 853 OS tubeset, conventional diameter sets are available which will allow for a more comfortable ride, while still retaining most of the benefits associated with 853 oversize.



853 is currently produced in 8 tube tubesets. There are no fork blades drawn from this alloy. Bob Jackson will supply 853 frames with your choice of fork material., and configuration.

via the "info" link above:

Reynolds 853 - heat treated
UTS: 81 - 91 Tsi, 180 - 210 Ksi,
1250 - 1450 MPa


STEEL IS REAL !

This seamless air-hardening steel tube sets new standards for professional cycle frames and proves that steel still has a future at the highest levels. It is suitable for TIG welding and brazing, using lugged or lugless construction. The production process ensures tight tolerance, gauge tubes. The strength to weight ratio of 853 is close to that of quality titanium frames. A normal chrome molybdenum steel will lose strength in the joints after the heat has been applied.

This material (853) INCREASES in strength as the frame cools to strengths well in excess of the delivered values shown above. This unique air hardening property of Reynolds 853 provides additional stiffness through reduced microyielding at the joints, allowing stiffer frames with excellent fatigue strength (when compared to standard chrome molybdenum) and a superior ride quality from the finished frame. On road and touring frames we recommend the use of 631 or 725 fork blades with 853 frames.

We offer this tube set in many sizes for custom framebuilders, and is suitable for lightweight frames, strong/tall riders and has also been specified for free-ride and BMX frames due to its' high impact strength.

Last edited by Mike Mills; 08-17-11 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 08-17-11, 04:34 PM   #17
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The stickers don't have anything to do with the frame except maybe the 853 but don't quote me. The lookout is a punk rock record label big back in the 90s and Santa Cruz was a big skateboard company so the two kind of go hand in hand given the age of the frame and the original owner. The Reynolds decal is a curveball though but could quite possibly be.
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Old 08-17-11, 08:42 PM   #18
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Lower end TIG welded, something like a 1995 KHS Aerosport (not sure of the seat post size on that one, OK 26.8, so its not that one). True Temper tubing. Or a 1994 Fuji Ace, Tange db frame. TIG welded.

Given the weight, I would be looking at any of the lower end Asian bikes from the early to mid 1990s: Giant, Fuji, KHS, or whatever. I haven't seen TIG welded 531, doesn't mean it is not out there. More common is Reynolds 520 in the lower/mid grades, or just 4130 cromo.

Do you have an accurate scale???

Rear spacing? Might be older, early 90s.

OK, my "official" guess: 1997 Giant Perigee. TIG welded cromoly frame, high ten steel stays, 27.2mm seat post, just not sure about the cable stops.

Last edited by wrk101; 08-17-11 at 08:54 PM.
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