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  1. #1
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Gauging interest: Bottom bracket article at The Headbadge



    The rendering rather suggests what I'm getting at - I'm considering adding a new page to The Headbadge explaining all the common bottom bracket oddities, including:

    Thin cup vs. thick cup: How cups affect your spindles, and how to tell the difference
    Offset spindles vs. symmetrical: Why the published width of your BB spindle won't tell you all you need to know
    Crank offsets: Why two cranksets will give the same chainline with vastly different length BB spindles needs a much shorter BB spindle to give the same chainline
    Cobbledegook: How to build a bottom bracket by matching a set of cups to an unrelated spindle.
    Chainstay crimping: Compromising when your frame and choice of chainrings force you to move your cranks farther outboard than optimum chainline would suggest
    Tapers: A database of what works, what doesn't, what works as a kludge, and figuring taper wear into your spindle choice
    Installation depth: A subcategory of tapers - essentially, how to tell when your ISO crank has bottomed out (or when you've been torquing cranks way too much).

    Any interest? If so, I'll proceed. If not, I won't bother.

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 07-15-11 at 08:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Paceline Lead Blocker
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    If my Paramount doesn't qualify for the registry, am I allowed to say how cool and useful I'd find this?

  3. #3
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Interest from me...although I suspect I've osmosed a lot of this already. But, by all means Kurt, I'd love to have such an article as a reference.

  4. #4
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P4D View Post
    If my Paramount doesn't qualify for the registry, am I allowed to say how cool and useful I'd find this?
    Of course.

    Is yours a post-1984 Waterford, or did I forget to add you to the registry?

    -Kurt

  5. #5
    Senior Member Michael Angelo's Avatar
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    You can borrow my Sutherlands Book, the section on BB's has all the weird combos that work or won't work and why.

    Mike

  6. #6
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
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    Just as long as you add a sub section devoted to converting Schwinn one piece cranks to three piece with the FMF or Truvativ conversion adapters.

    Bob
    Dreaming of Summertime in NH!

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  7. #7
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    I'd definitely read it Kurt.

  8. #8
    Senior Member sykerocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
    I'd definitely read it Kurt.
    Likewise here. I've always managed to learn something, no matter how small, from yet another article on a subject.
    Syke

    "No wonder we keep testing positive in their bicycle races. Everyone looks like they're full of testosterone when they're surrounded by Frenchmen." ---Argus Hamilton

  9. #9
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
    You can borrow my Sutherlands Book, the section on BB's has all the weird combos that work or won't work and why.
    That should help when I get down to the oddball crank tapers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
    Just as long as you add a sub section devoted to converting Schwinn one piece cranks to three piece with the FMF or Truvativ conversion adapters.
    It isn't particularly part of the article, but I recently aquired about 25 of those square taper spindles made to be installed directly into an Ashtabula BB (and use the Ashtabula bearing races).

    -Kurt

  10. #10
    Senior Member Pars's Avatar
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    I think that would be a great and useful article Kurt.

    Dew eet!

  11. #11
    Wrench Savant balindamood's Avatar
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    I'd read it, although this may disuade you from wanting to write it.
    "Where you come from is gone;
    where you are headed weren't never there;
    and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it."

  12. #12
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    Well, I've never quite digested all of those differences (thin vs. thick, etc.) when you've described them previously, but that's likely just me. Sutherlands is very useful for me, however.

    Neal

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Of course.

    Is yours a post-1984 Waterford?

    -Kurt
    +1

    I find drawings, renderings such as your example pricelessly helpful.

  14. #14
    Senior Member ScottRyder's Avatar
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    wow, what a resource that would be .. it would be very appreciated .... Thanks Kurt.

    Scott

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    Do it !

  16. #16
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    Another on the "I would read it" train. It would be great to have an article that puts all of that info into one place for me to try to finally make some sense of all of this BB stuff.

  17. #17
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    I am a new member (been lurking for a while though), and relatively new to working on bikes. An article like this would be *very* helpful! I'm also interested in coverage of all of the options for converting the Schwinn Ashtabula one piece cranks to 3-piece. Thanks in advance.

  18. #18
    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    Looks great!
    Be sure to add cautions about fixed cups & casual attempts at removal.
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

  19. #19
    No Money and No Sense sillygolem's Avatar
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    +1

    I've been working on a 10 speed conversion FAQ over on FGSS and this would be extremely useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    I ride fixed because I'm mad at my parents. **** you Mom!

  20. #20
    Senior Member jbkirby's Avatar
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    Please do it, I wouldn't have a situation I do now if this information had been available a few weeks ago. I just finished a complete restoration on a 1971 Raleigh International 23.5 inch frame (one obviously stripped for the components) and the bottom bracket was the greatest challenge. Had I not opted for a smaller inside chainring (42 tooth rather than the original 45 tooth) the inside chainring would be rubbing the rapid taper chainstay. I have precious little clearance, and could have used another millimeter of spindle length, but happily, everything works beautifully.

  21. #21
    Gearhead old's'cool's Avatar
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    I'd read it with great interest, albiet I'm not anticipating needing to apply the information anytime soon; you never know.
    Geoff
    "I think that I think, therefore I think that I am"

  22. #22
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    It's settled then - I'll write the article. Give me a week or two; this one will take some time.

    -Kurt

  23. #23
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    Wonderful!

    I remain quite mystified as to why a Stronglight 93 came with a 118mm Stronglight spindle, but fits easily onto a standard (pre-'77) Campy 114mm BB, and exactly which Phil Wood BB can be used?

    Same with the mystery of the Avocet/Ofmega crankset that Sheldon says cannot be used with anything other than a special proprietary BB, but I ran for years on either a standard (again older) Campy BB or even longer on an OMAS (also standard ISO taper) BB?

    Please, do write it.

    Many thanks, in advance.
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
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  24. #24
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    I can't say that I'll be able to answer why you experienced some specific oddity, but perhaps phrase it in a way that will better explain the nuances.

    That said, I was typing a bit regarding the thick/thin cup issue - I'm running this draft by you fellows for proofreading:

    Thin cup vs. thick cup:

    Traditional bottom brackets of all threadings (or at least those in popular use) can be found in two different variants - thick-cup and thin-cup:



    Components from each type should not be mix and matched with each other, as explained below:

    Thick cups are usually 4.0mm in thickness from the outside face of the cup to the edge of the cup's bearing raceway (F); thin cups are generally 2.0mm, with some exceptions.

    This means that a bottom bracket spindle made for thick cups will have raceways (B) spaced 4mm narrower than a spindle made for use with thin cups*. Even though bottom bracket sets of each type can be used to achieve the exact same overall spindle width (D) and offset, it is impossible to mix and match cups and spindles from each type. The differing cup and spindle thicknesses will result in the adjustable cup threading too far into the bottom bracket shell (thin cups + thick cup spindle) or sit too far outboard (thick cups + thin cup spindle). In theory, the latter combo can be used as a last resort, but there is a possibility that the left crankarm will bottom out on the cup.




    Not shown is a diagram indicating the B and D measurements, which I'll add later.

    -Kurt

  25. #25
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Very interested!
    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
    1999 Cannondale F400 mountain bike
    2012 Bianchi Infinito (Campy Record 11s)
    2012 Colnago C59 in PR99 color scheme (Campy Record 11s)

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