Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-15-11, 12:49 AM   #1
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Gauging interest: Bottom bracket article at The Headbadge



The rendering rather suggests what I'm getting at - I'm considering adding a new page to The Headbadge explaining all the common bottom bracket oddities, including:

Thin cup vs. thick cup: How cups affect your spindles, and how to tell the difference
Offset spindles vs. symmetrical: Why the published width of your BB spindle won't tell you all you need to know
Crank offsets: Why two cranksets will give the same chainline with vastly different length BB spindles needs a much shorter BB spindle to give the same chainline
Cobbledegook: How to build a bottom bracket by matching a set of cups to an unrelated spindle.
Chainstay crimping: Compromising when your frame and choice of chainrings force you to move your cranks farther outboard than optimum chainline would suggest
Tapers: A database of what works, what doesn't, what works as a kludge, and figuring taper wear into your spindle choice
Installation depth: A subcategory of tapers - essentially, how to tell when your ISO crank has bottomed out (or when you've been torquing cranks way too much).

Any interest? If so, I'll proceed. If not, I won't bother.

-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 07-15-11 at 08:31 AM.
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 12:51 AM   #2
P4D 
Paceline Lead Blocker
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If my Paramount doesn't qualify for the registry, am I allowed to say how cool and useful I'd find this?
P4D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 12:52 AM   #3
khatfull
FBoD Member at Large
 
khatfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Woodbury, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 6,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Interest from me...although I suspect I've osmosed a lot of this already. But, by all means Kurt, I'd love to have such an article as a reference.
khatfull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 12:56 AM   #4
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by P4D View Post
If my Paramount doesn't qualify for the registry, am I allowed to say how cool and useful I'd find this?
Of course.

Is yours a post-1984 Waterford, or did I forget to add you to the registry?

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 02:05 AM   #5
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
You can borrow my Sutherlands Book, the section on BB's has all the weird combos that work or won't work and why.

Mike
Michael Angelo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 06:11 AM   #6
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,246
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Just as long as you add a sub section devoted to converting Schwinn one piece cranks to three piece with the FMF or Truvativ conversion adapters.

__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 07:19 AM   #7
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,750
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
I'd definitely read it Kurt.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 07:30 AM   #8
sykerocker 
Senior Member
 
sykerocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Montpelier, VA
Bikes: The keepers: 1960 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 1973 Lambert, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport, 2 - 1988 Rossins
Posts: 3,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
I'd definitely read it Kurt.
Likewise here. I've always managed to learn something, no matter how small, from yet another article on a subject.
__________________
Syke

"No wonder we keep testing positive in their bicycle races. Everyone looks like they're full of testosterone when they're surrounded by Frenchmen." ---Argus Hamilton
sykerocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 08:04 AM   #9
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
You can borrow my Sutherlands Book, the section on BB's has all the weird combos that work or won't work and why.
That should help when I get down to the oddball crank tapers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Just as long as you add a sub section devoted to converting Schwinn one piece cranks to three piece with the FMF or Truvativ conversion adapters.
It isn't particularly part of the article, but I recently aquired about 25 of those square taper spindles made to be installed directly into an Ashtabula BB (and use the Ashtabula bearing races).

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 08:11 AM   #10
Pars 
Senior Member
 
Pars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aurora, IL
Bikes: '73 Raleigh RRA, 1986 Trek 500 commuter
Posts: 2,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I think that would be a great and useful article Kurt.

Dew eet!
Pars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 08:28 AM   #11
balindamood 
Wrench Savant
 
balindamood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 61 Degrees North
Bikes: www.2nd-cycles.com
Posts: 2,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd read it, although this may disuade you from wanting to write it.
__________________
"Where you come from is gone;
where you are headed weren't never there;
and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it."
balindamood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 08:58 AM   #12
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 10,001
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Well, I've never quite digested all of those differences (thin vs. thick, etc.) when you've described them previously, but that's likely just me. Sutherlands is very useful for me, however.

Neal
nlerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 09:02 AM   #13
P4D 
Paceline Lead Blocker
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Of course.

Is yours a post-1984 Waterford?

-Kurt
+1

I find drawings, renderings such as your example pricelessly helpful.
P4D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 09:16 AM   #14
ScottRyder 
Senior Member
 
ScottRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The other Cape, Cape Ann
Bikes: vintagefuji.posthaven.com
Posts: 2,934
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
wow, what a resource that would be .. it would be very appreciated .... Thanks Kurt.

Scott
ScottRyder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 09:26 AM   #15
schwinnderella
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Do it !
schwinnderella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 09:37 AM   #16
3speed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Bikes:
Posts: 2,683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Another on the "I would read it" train. It would be great to have an article that puts all of that info into one place for me to try to finally make some sense of all of this BB stuff.
3speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 11:11 AM   #17
Metacortex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Bikes: Fillet-brazed Schwinns
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
I am a new member (been lurking for a while though), and relatively new to working on bikes. An article like this would be *very* helpful! I'm also interested in coverage of all of the options for converting the Schwinn Ashtabula one piece cranks to 3-piece. Thanks in advance.
Metacortex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 11:43 AM   #18
David Newton
Wood
 
David Newton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beaumont, Tx
Bikes: Raleigh Sports: hers. Vianelli Professional & Bridgestone 300: mine
Posts: 2,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Looks great!
Be sure to add cautions about fixed cups & casual attempts at removal.
David Newton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 12:56 PM   #19
sillygolem
No Money and No Sense
 
sillygolem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Anderson, MO
Bikes:
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
+1

I've been working on a 10 speed conversion FAQ over on FGSS and this would be extremely useful.
sillygolem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 01:24 PM   #20
jbkirby
Senior Member
 
jbkirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dothan, AL
Bikes: 1971 Raleigh International; 1972 Raleigh International; 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Please do it, I wouldn't have a situation I do now if this information had been available a few weeks ago. I just finished a complete restoration on a 1971 Raleigh International 23.5 inch frame (one obviously stripped for the components) and the bottom bracket was the greatest challenge. Had I not opted for a smaller inside chainring (42 tooth rather than the original 45 tooth) the inside chainring would be rubbing the rapid taper chainstay. I have precious little clearance, and could have used another millimeter of spindle length, but happily, everything works beautifully.
jbkirby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 06:00 PM   #21
old's'cool 
curmudgineer
 
old's'cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here
Posts: 3,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I'd read it with great interest, albiet I'm not anticipating needing to apply the information anytime soon; you never know.
__________________
Geoff
"I think that I think, therefore I think that I am"
old's'cool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 08:02 PM   #22
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's settled then - I'll write the article. Give me a week or two; this one will take some time.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-11, 08:33 PM   #23
LeicaLad 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wonderful!

I remain quite mystified as to why a Stronglight 93 came with a 118mm Stronglight spindle, but fits easily onto a standard (pre-'77) Campy 114mm BB, and exactly which Phil Wood BB can be used?

Same with the mystery of the Avocet/Ofmega crankset that Sheldon says cannot be used with anything other than a special proprietary BB, but I ran for years on either a standard (again older) Campy BB or even longer on an OMAS (also standard ISO taper) BB?

Please, do write it.

Many thanks, in advance.
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen)
1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
(replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)
LeicaLad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-11, 01:15 AM   #24
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can't say that I'll be able to answer why you experienced some specific oddity, but perhaps phrase it in a way that will better explain the nuances.

That said, I was typing a bit regarding the thick/thin cup issue - I'm running this draft by you fellows for proofreading:

Thin cup vs. thick cup:

Traditional bottom brackets of all threadings (or at least those in popular use) can be found in two different variants - thick-cup and thin-cup:



Components from each type should not be mix and matched with each other, as explained below:

Thick cups are usually 4.0mm in thickness from the outside face of the cup to the edge of the cup's bearing raceway (F); thin cups are generally 2.0mm, with some exceptions.

This means that a bottom bracket spindle made for thick cups will have raceways (B) spaced 4mm narrower than a spindle made for use with thin cups*. Even though bottom bracket sets of each type can be used to achieve the exact same overall spindle width (D) and offset, it is impossible to mix and match cups and spindles from each type. The differing cup and spindle thicknesses will result in the adjustable cup threading too far into the bottom bracket shell (thin cups + thick cup spindle) or sit too far outboard (thick cups + thin cup spindle). In theory, the latter combo can be used as a last resort, but there is a possibility that the left crankarm will bottom out on the cup.




Not shown is a diagram indicating the B and D measurements, which I'll add later.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-11, 01:40 AM   #25
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 3,520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Very interested!
eja_ bottecchia is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:37 AM.