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Old 07-16-11, 03:06 AM   #1
checkthree
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What is the story behind this Guerciotti?

Earlier this year I bought a bike off of craigslist. Its a '70's(?) light weight racing frameset. Its a Guerciotti. I got it for about $300. The guy I bought it from said that he had bought it from a local bike shop. And apparently they had had the frame, and restored it with NOS (or close to) components.

But I have no idea: how accurate a restoration it was; how old the frame is; where it was made; what it was made for; why it has cheap paint; and how should I use it?

Its roughly a 58cm frame, blue-ish green (more seafoam than celeste). Cheap paint, its bubbly everywhere and it has no flashy decals. It says GUERCIOTTI in big black fancy font (which is prone to chipping) on the downtube. And it has a painted G on the headtube. And that's it! No colours or other decals. The only way I know for sure its a Guerciotti is because its pantographed on the fork and seat stays. Oh, and it also has a giant star cut out of the bottom bracket (a Guerciotti trademark I read).
I don't recall if it has anything else stamped on the BB. I'll check later.

The shop had equipped it with an old Shimano 600 drivetrain, Cinelli bars, nice old mavic wheels, modolo brakes and a well used Bernard Hinault Turbo unicanitor saddle.

Regardless if it was an accurate restoration, those are still not bad components.

But the biggest thing I want to know, is what this bike was made for? It has horizontal track dropouts with a derailleur hanger, a nearly straight fork and no other braze-ons.

If anyone has any knowledge of what I'm talking about, I'm really curious.
Also, what should I do with this bike and how nice is it really?

http://velospace.org/files/icycle1.jpg
http://velospace.org/files/icycle2.jpg
http://velospace.org/files/icycle3.jpg

PS. Everyone on velospace tells me to turn it into a full fledged track bike. I'm kind of hesitant..
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Old 07-16-11, 03:27 AM   #2
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I don't think Guerciottis got real fancy until 10 Speed Drive got ahold of them in the '80s

this does look intreesting though

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Old 07-16-11, 03:30 AM   #3
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Interesting. the track dropouts with an RD hanger is unusual. I have not seen those before.
BTW, Bernard Hinault Turbos do not have anything to do with Cinelli "Unicanitor" saddles. Two entirely different saddles.

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Old 07-16-11, 03:35 AM   #4
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BTW, Bernard Hinault Turbos do not have anything to do with Cinelli "Unicanitor" saddles. Two entirely different saddles.

Chombi
Oh. yeah thanks.. You know what I meant.
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Old 07-16-11, 03:43 AM   #5
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Ten Speed Drive imported them and then used better paints, and thats what all those flashy purple and blue Guerciotti's are.. I see. One question answered. Thanks!

What time would you say this frame was made then?
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Old 07-16-11, 03:53 AM   #6
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Maybe it's some sort of track warm-up/training bike that a trackie can spin on before their events, using higher gear ratios of their choice with the derailleur and a road rear wheel but still have the same geometry and handling of a track bike??

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Old 07-16-11, 04:03 AM   #7
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Maybe it's some sort of track warm-up/training bike that a trackie can spin on before their events, using higher gear ratios of their choice with the derailleur and a road rear wheel but still have the same geometry and handling of a track bike??

Chombi
Uh-huh.. So they can train on roads, but still keep the track geometry. Maybe.
Its a hybrid.

This is the only other bike I have found on the web with a similar situation.
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Old 07-16-11, 04:05 AM   #8
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I would say the frame, mostly from lack of brazeons, would be early '70s maybe 60s. I am not even sure when Guerciotti began production, are we certain that is the brand?

it is still very early on saturday and most of the more knowledgeable ( no offense Chombi) are likely sleeping, out riding or standing in line at various yardsales and fleamarkets.

is you don't see more posting around noon give your post a gentle bump.

OH yah WELCOME to the forums!!
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Old 07-16-11, 04:11 AM   #9
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I would say the frame, mostly from lack of brazeons, would be early '70s maybe 60s. I am not even sure when Guerciotti began production, are we certain that is the brand?

it is still very early on saturday and most of the more knowledgeable ( no offense Chombi) are likely sleeping, out riding or standing in line at various yardsales and fleamarkets.

is you don't see more posting around noon give your post a gentle bump.

OH yah WELCOME to the forums!!
Actually, I crashed too early after work.......sooo now I'm awake too early

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Old 07-16-11, 04:13 AM   #10
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Thanks! Nice to be here.

And yeah, it has "Guerciotti" pantographed into the seat stays at the seat cluster. It also has various other stars and G's on the fork and frame. And a big star cut out of the bottom bracket shell.
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Old 07-16-11, 05:00 AM   #11
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You can e-mail Guerciotti and ask about the bike. I did once because there were bikes on eBay that didn't have the pantographs and used Oria tubing. They were still true Guerciotti's, though. They e-mailed me back in a few days, very nice.
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Old 07-16-11, 09:42 AM   #12
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I'd like to see a better photo of the track ends and the brake bridge. Looking at the fork, it does appear to be a track frame, so a proper resto would be a track bike. Based on what little info is provided, specifically the panto info, I would venture to date this bike mid to late 70s. But I must say the track ends look decidedly crude. Is there any evidence of rifling inside the seat tube down near the BB? It is probably Columbus SL, rifling might indicate SLX, but the date I put on it makes it seem unlikely. Kind of miss my Guerc, but the Merck it got me is a sweet ride.
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Old 07-16-11, 10:14 AM   #13
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Those very short point lugs are odd for a Guerciotti, IMO, and to me point to a later time period than most of the guesses here. They would have been quite uncommon in the 70's, with some exceptions (i.e. De Rosa).
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Old 07-16-11, 10:27 AM   #14
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That's cool as crap. Wish I could find something like that. I have a 10 Speed Drive Guerciotti. Pics later.

Show us the pantographs.
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Old 07-16-11, 10:33 AM   #15
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I'd like to see a better photo of the track ends and the brake bridge. Looking at the fork, it does appear to be a track frame, so a proper resto would be a track bike. Based on what little info is provided, specifically the panto info, I would venture to date this bike mid to late 70s. But I must say the track ends look decidedly crude. Is there any evidence of rifling inside the seat tube down near the BB? It is probably Columbus SL, rifling might indicate SLX, but the date I put on it makes it seem unlikely. Kind of miss my Guerc, but the Merck it got me is a sweet ride.
wouldn't late '70s be way early for SLX?

in the not a real Guerciotti theme (and I mentioned this in the forum several times) when we got 10spd Drive team frame in '90 (I think) some of them were actually Tomasso and Battaglin painted in our team colors with the Guerciotti decals

Checkthree is this in the US?
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Old 07-16-11, 11:31 AM   #16
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wouldn't late '70s be way early for SLX?
Like I said, the date I put on it makes it unlikely. But my date could be wrong.
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Old 07-16-11, 12:01 PM   #17
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that is totally weird: until better close-ups are posted, I'm going to say it's been "drewed" to have all the braze-ons removed and new hand-made track ends added, custom made with a hanger. It looks made to run brakes, so it's not strictly a track machine. The headlugs look much later (like late '80s) in style, as Picchio states.
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Old 07-16-11, 12:39 PM   #18
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When I see a single post for both downtube shifters, I think of 1980's aero bikes. But then I see the cable clips and immediately think of earlier bikes. So I'm left scratching my head.
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Old 07-16-11, 12:44 PM   #19
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When I see a single post for both downtube shifters, I think of 1980's aero bikes. But then I see the cable clips and immediately think of earlier bikes. So I'm left scratching my head.

you have to look real close but it looks like there is a clamp for the shifters, they look like the top mount suntour ones
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Old 07-16-11, 03:57 PM   #20
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Those very short point lugs are odd for a Guerciotti, IMO, and to me point to a later time period than most of the guesses here. They would have been quite uncommon in the 70's, with some exceptions (i.e. De Rosa).
One reason I put it late 70s is the scalloped seat stay cap and the block lettering for Guerciotti. I believe by ca 83, they were using a flatter cap and script.
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Old 07-16-11, 05:43 PM   #21
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One reason I put it late 70s is the scalloped seat stay cap and the block lettering for Guerciotti. I believe by ca 83, they were using a flatter cap and script.
I took note of the block lettering thing myself, but I still question late-70's because of that lug style. Those lugs are a head-shaker for the Guerciottis I've seen. I'd be surprised if Guerciotti used them in the 70's, but if it was a track frame from the get-go, maybe they did something unusual - though even the Guerciotti track frames I've seen don't use those lugs.
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Old 07-16-11, 08:30 PM   #22
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sorry..

Sorry, I'm out of town right now. I'll be back late tomorrow and I'll take some better pictures of the hanger, pantographs and lugs.

I also forgot to mention that after closer inspection, the rear triangle is spaced for a track wheel and there is almost no brake clearance in the front.
When I first bought it I had to buy smaller tires for it to work.

The shifters are suntour clamp-ons (with neat self trimming FD).

I realized soon after I brought the thing home that the stem was completely stuck in the fork as well..
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Old 07-16-11, 08:54 PM   #23
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One reason I put it late 70s is the scalloped seat stay cap and the block lettering for Guerciotti. I believe by ca 83, they were using a flatter cap and script.
A. Spoon stays with "GUERCIOTTI" lettering = 197? through 1983, SL and SLX frames only.
B. Flat cap stays "GUERCIOTTI" lettering = 197? through 1983, Falk-tube frames only (TSD lists these as the Guerciotti Gran Sport Road and Mod. Galli Criterium only).
C. Flat caps with "Paulo Guerciotti" signature = 1984+, all frames.

A.


B.


C.


The downtube lettering is unlike anything that I've seen before - I'm almost certain these transfers are not original.

The track frame shown in the pre-1984 Ten Speed Drive catalog does have a similar dropout treatment, and the BB height (eyeballed) doesn't suggest a converted road frame:

Full catalog here


My guess is that the OP's frame is one of the following:

A. An unknown frame built with leftover Guerciotti seatstay caps, or contraband caps from South America (lots of Guerciotti fakes come from there, but this doesn't look like one of them).

Or, more likely:

B. A genuine Guerciotti track frame with strange lugs (for no apparent reason), a repaint with incorrect transfers, and a derailer hanger carefully added onto the dropout.

-Kurt
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Old 07-17-11, 01:16 AM   #24
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It's a track bike with a derailleur hangar added, I had a Limongi that was done the same way.
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Old 07-17-11, 11:32 PM   #25
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OK, I'll buy that explanation...still want to see better close-ups.
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