3speed

I don't know anything about that Riv, but you could find yourself a nice, higher end vintage touring that originally came with 27" wheels. That should be pretty comfortable, well built, and probably look pretty sweet too since most of the higher end bikes of that time do once they're built up nicely. Then you could really get some nice tire clearance out of it by switching to 700c wheels. The touring bike will of course come with plenty of braze-ons for racks, fenders, water bottles, etc. I bet you could build up a REALLY nice one for under $1000 Easy. I bet you could build up a pretty freakin sweet one for under $500. You could even get it powder coated and outline the lugs and have a durable, yet sweet classy looking frame.

freebyrd1904

i know i go on and on but bridgestone mb series, all i have is a loly 5 model, looking to find a 4321 or 0 someday, anyway i am a newb also but the guy who runs rivvendale is named grant peterson and he designed the bridgestone bikes,
i have made my mb5 into a great commuter get around/all around bike.
the o.p. should look into this

noglider 

This stuff always stirs up a lot of passion here.

This subforum is about the merits of OLD bikes and how to acquire and restore them frugally. Rivendell makes nice bikes, but they're new. If you know how to fix up bikes, Rivendell bikes are overpriced. If you're not inclined to build or rebuild a bike, Rivendell might be an excellent choice. It's a time/money tradeoff. If you have time but not so much money, this is the forum for you.

Many of us get more satisfaction by spending MORE time on bikes, so it doesn't feel expensive to us. The more time we spend, the better.

If you want to jump on and ride, buy a Rivendell. Or buy a vintage bike from one of us, all fixed up.

But we love to impart our knowledge, and we can turn you into an expert, too, if you have the patience and the stomach to sit with us for long periods.

lostarchitect 

I have one of these. It doesn't come with an internally geared hub, but I replaced the wheels with new ones from Soma with a 3 speed hub. Total cost for the whole bike, if you don't do anything else to it would be about $675.

Edit: And I actually sold the old wheels for $125. Assuming you could get at least $100 for them, that brings the cost down to $575.

irwin7638

In all due respect Tom, I like to wrench as much as anybody and built up my Rivendell as well. I can say after owning one that there is a much greater difference than time and money between an old design and a Riv. The beauty attracts us but the performance keeps us on them, day after day after day.

Marc

gomango

I'd have to agree.

I've been watching the folks at the lbs build up a new Sam Hillborne, and I am impressed.

I really like the features, and for the amount of time we spend riding, the price doesn't seem outrageous.

We have made a major commitment to riding at our house, and I like the style/utility of the orange, single top tube Sam Hillborne.

Built properly, I think it would be a sweet bicycle.

To each their own I'd reckon.

KonAaron Snake 

Irwin - I am asking this out of curiosity, I am not debating or arguing with you, so if it comes across wrong, I apologize...

What about the Sam Hilborn is different from other bikes you've ridden? What distinguishes it from older MTBs out there? Is it geometry? Tubing? Can you describe some of the differences? Are we talking comfort, cornering...etc.?

I also don't mean this rudely - but do you think some of that might be fit...or saddles...or tires?

ColonelJLloyd 

I've never seen an older MTB with geometry like a Sam Hillborne.

KonAaron Snake 

Colonel - I don't know much about Rivendells, but just eyeing it, this looks like an XO-1 with an extra top tube and a sloping TT. The geometry looks tighter than a "normal" MTB as well. Was this meant as a replacement for the Rivendell version of the XO-1? I forget that bikes name.

ColonelJLloyd 

I don't believe GP would've stopped tweaking his designs when he left Bridgestone. The XO-1 is a 26" bike. I think most of the Riv bikes are designed for 700c, with a few smaller sizes designed around 650B. All of the Salukis may have been 650B. I don't know. I don't own one. I have ridden a few, though. A Romulus, a Quickbeam, a huge Hunquapillar and (not really a Riv) a 700c Heron.

KonAaron Snake 

So you would compare this to an XO-1 as well?

ColonelJLloyd 

I would not consider the XO-1 and Sam Hillborne directly comparable, no. A BLT and a croque monsieur are both delicious sandwiches, but . . .

knowumsayin'?

bobbycorno

NB: Cousin Grant spells it PetersEn. Never trust anybody who can't spell his name right.

Scott PetersOn
Bend, OR

fender1

Here is a recent article that was on the Riv site that might give some insight to older vs. modern design thoughts.


https://www.rivbike.com/assets/payloa...iginal_sj3.pdf

gomango

Another choice out there is a Bruce Gordon BLT.

https://www.brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com/

For $750 measly bucks you get:

A frame, fork, stem, racks, and a headset. That's a great deal for a headstart on a nice tourer/all-arounder.



So it all depends on your intended use for a Hillborne or any other Rivendell.

This may work as well, or better depending on your needs.

As an aside, you can order a full custom frameset from Bruce Gordon for $1,800.

That's a great price.

The best part is there is zero wait list.

Maybe not great for Bruce, but a huge opportunity for a great custom build.

irwin7638

No offense taken, I've scratched my head over this myself. First, I don't have a Hillborne, but a Hunqapillar. The Hunq is Riv's heavy duty touring bike, it replaced my Surly LHT. The handling and comfort are the biggest differences. The LHT handled, well, like a truck, the Hunq handles more like an MTB. There are differences in the geometry, but they are so slight that it makes me wonder. Without stressing over the particulars, there's on degree of difference here and a cm there, but also the Hunq has a 6 degree upslope to the top tube.
Now my build is a perfect comparison to the LHT, because I took all the components from the LHT to build the Hunq. So it's not the saddle, tires, handlebars etc. They are the same. The difference lies in the materials, design and geometry.

Marc

KonAaron Snake 

If I were in the market for an everyday rider, I'd be after either a BG or a Bilenky. Both are reasonable and experienced custom builders.

Fender - really cool link - love that "biplane" fork.

Maddox

Yes. Well, sort of. Any steel bike (even a Sam Hillborne) will be heavier than an aluminum bike of equivalent size, but there are variances in both the type of steel and the treatment of the steel which can make a difference on how heavy a steel bike is.

On just about every bike's seatube there's a decal or sticker telling what type of steel was used in the manufacturing of the bike. Best made mountain bikes were constructed from Ritchey or Tange Infinity/Prestige tubing. These aren't the only good one's, but they're a start. The better the steel, the lighter the bike.

Also, you want double or triple butted steel. Google "butted steel" if you need help with the definition, but basically butted steel is internally reamed to decrease the diameter of the tubes -- usually away from welds and in areas where load is not going to affect structural integrity. Though there are many desireable steels, there are also undesireable types (1020/1040, Hi-ten, Mangalloy, etc) which are no good and ought to be a dealbreaker.

As far as imitating the geometry of the Sam, you need to decide between 26" or 700c wheels, because that will dictate which type of bike you should go for. Bridgestone MB's are made with good tubing, have sporty geometry in the same vein as the Sam, and would be solid for any commuting/errand duties, but they are 26"-wheeled bikes. 700c will not fit.

If you want to go with 700c, the Surly CrossCheck is a modern marvel - OR you could go with something like the Univega Activa Trail -- it's a MTB-inspired 700c-wheeled bike with full braze-ons (except mid-fork) and which could make a really nice commuter/errand/light-tourer. One user on this forum, Zaphod Beeblebrox, made a really nice one.

After some lite internet searching, here's an example of an errand duty Activa Trail (not Zaphods, but a great example nonetheless):




The main benefit in saving money on the frame by going vintage instead of modern is that you can put the $800-1000 you save on the frame toward new wheels, cranks, tires, shifters, grips, bars, stem, etc and ride it into the ground...or for as long as it takes you to save up for the new frame. Then, you can just switch the components off of your old frame to the new one. With a brand new bike you'll have to spend close to 1/2 the cost of the frame on new components. This way, you get the components before you buy the new frame.


EDIT: Neglected to include that the Activa Trail came stock with 700x35c tires. I don't know how much larger they would fit, so I'm not going to guess, but 35 is pretty good if you're not doing any offroading.

Hangtownmatt

I think the question you have to ask yourself is how much are you willing to lose? I certainly wouldn't leave a 5-7 year investment outside a grocery store. It's unfortunate, but for most of us it's the world we live in. Maybe your circumstances are different.

squirtdad

An option might be linus https://www.linusbike.com/models/roadster-8/ I have not ridden one, but I have seen them and they seem to have a good build.

another idea trek touring https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...ouring/520/520 vs

Another option rather than a MTB would be to look for an 80's Japanese bike to do a build on ( many of the early 80's bikes had frames that were more touring like in geometry....... this was an 82 nishiki 12 speed... it is now and 8 speed.... I went from 27 wheels to 700c Long reach dual pivot brakes....it handles a 700/28 tire easily....

mazdaspeed

Practically any older hybrid bike can be made into a Rivendell-esque utility / light touring rig.

irwin7638

By now you've realized you had no idea what it would mean to mention Rivendell on a bike forum (this could go on for pages without you). I've struggled with this myself and if you want a Hillborne,here is my final suggestion. Given your intentions, buy a Surly Cross Check. Accessorize it as you would the Rivendell, ride until you can afford the Riv, raid the Surly for components to build the Riv, sell the Surly frame, and you have the bike you want.
I did this with my Hunq and an LHT and my cost on the basic build was $2150 with a$1500 frame. Surly wins, Riv wins, my LBS wins,I get the bike I want. Granted, all thecomponents are not m my first choice, but I can upgrade as the budget allows and I wear them out.

Marc

squirtdad

another thought or different way to look at it to throw in the mix......

Sam Hilborne.....is $1050

A surly Lht or Pacer frame is about $470

the differnce $580. and it folllows that if you build the bikes the same way the end difference would br $580.

...What does that buy you?

Surly tig welded/ Rivendell lugged and brazed. Both strong, brazed lugs have slight edge, but probably no enough to be practical. looks are personal thing but many people think lugged and brazed looks nicer

Paint
Surly power coat/ Rivendell paint and clear coat


Design:
Surly not sure about design team/ Rivendell designed by a obsessive guy whos has fiddled with designs for years

Intangibles..... just that...what works for you

ColonelJLloyd 

It doesn't really matter, but is it a fact that a brazed lugged frame's joints are stronger than those that are TIG welded? I don't think it is.

ScottRyder 

I would buy the frame now, put it safely on your wall and watch how fast things come together for you to build it up. Maybe not your first choice of components but at least you'll be riding it.

Make deals, scrounge from your friends and outright beg! Do it, get that Rivendell!!! If it's what you want, don't substitute for something less.

Brought to you by the guy who sold his Riv. and still regrets it.

Scott