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  1. #1
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    Cambio Rino 1984-1985

    Good day everyone, I'm looking for original parts to restore my good old Cambio Rino (1984-1985?), I'm looking for a Crank, rear & front derailleurs and brake levers, I'm also looking for original decals. I think Cambio Rino was a division of Gardin cycles, which I beleive was based in Toronto Canada, but I'm not sure about this info, if any of you have any info to share it would be welcome.

    Blastoff

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    My understanding is that Cambio Rino bicycles and equipment were made in Ossona, Italy. Gardin was simply the distributor. The Cambio Rino parts were also marketed in the USA under the Excel name. Later Gardin manufactured mid and high end road and track bicycles under his own brand, though distribution was limited.

    Cambio Rino parts are hard to find, but I believe I know where there is a used crankset and a NOS rear derailleur.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    Joe Gardin actually brought over an Italian framebuilder who did build frames just outside Toronto. I saw the operations in 1984. Joe also sponsored some of the top Canadian amateurs at the time.

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    Wow! thank's for the detailed info, 20y ago when I bought this bike, the owner of the cycle store did tell me that this bike was imported from Italy but some other guy told me "Naaaa it's Gardin who fabricated it..." so I never really went to the bottom of it until now. What I can say about it is that in my racing years, this bike was a really good road racing bike, short, almost as a track bike and very fast cornering, I did many good races with it, I know only 2 other guy's that still own a CR, one is totally original and in mint condition, do you think these bikes have a good $$$ value in the (almost) vintage market?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blastoff
    Do you think these bikes have a good $$$ value in the (almost) vintage market?
    My experience indicate resale value would probably be poor. Value in the bicycle market seems to be driven by drive by prestige, quality and rarity, in that order. Very few people have heard of Cambio Rino and consequently there is little prestige associated with them. This is compounded by the fact that they used their own components rather than Campagnolo. Generally, cyclists associate the quality of the frame with the tubing and/or level of components on it. Since the components have no readily associated reputation, they draw down the value. Now rarity is the one thing Cambio Rino does have, but it's not enough. It may interest a former owner of one or collector of oddballs, but most people will pass them over.

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    cambio rino

    Hello,
    I have a very nice crancset (beautiful design anvery light) with the orig. bottom bracket an the rino-pedals that came with it (special thread as it seems to me). Send me a mail if you are still interested and searching. -seb.

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    Newbie mozzy66's Avatar
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    Rino

    I know Rino personally. Are you still looking for these parts? Maybe I can help. Regards, Thomas

  8. #8
    Senior Member Timmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blastoff View Post
    Wow! thank's for the detailed info, 20y ago when I bought this bike, the owner of the cycle store did tell me that this bike was imported from Italy but some other guy told me "Naaaa it's Gardin who fabricated it..." so I never really went to the bottom of it until now. What I can say about it is that in my racing years, this bike was a really good road racing bike, short, almost as a track bike and very fast cornering, I did many good races with it, I know only 2 other guy's that still own a CR, one is totally original and in mint condition, do you think these bikes have a good $$$ value in the (almost) vintage market?
    Well, you and they are all right. I was on Montreal's Centre du Vélo racing team a couple of years before Gardin started making them in Toronto. The bikes we received in the early years came out of Italy and were of extremely high quality. A Cambio Rino branded component gruppo was a couple of pounds lighter than a Campagnolo Super Record gruppo (italian for group or groupset). And yes, the handling was stunning! I owned a road bike, the Corsa model (optimized for criteriums), and a track bike. Unfortunately, I had a very bad crash with the road bike (sand in a hairpin turn at the bottom of a steep hill) and the frame was a complete loss.

    The store owner knew Gardin and forged a business alliance with him - as they were still importing from Italy everything was all hush-hush. Once the bikes started coming out of Toronto, they were botched, inconsistent, and often done very badly - with bad brazing work (gaps, etc). No two biked of same model and frame size actually had the same angles or dimensions. If that guy was a master framebuilder as Guisseppe Gardin had claimed he was (and not just a jobless cousin brought over to help him out), then that "master framebuilder" must have had a severe drinking problem to produce such junk. He was a disgrace to the name Cambio Rino. It was a true toss roll of the dice as to whether you'd end up with a good or a bad Gardin (whether called Cambio Rino initially or Gardin after bad relations developped with Italy). If you have an Italian-made Cambio-Rino, it probably has a serial number stamped into the bottom bracket, followed by a model year a bit apart from the rest of the number. I'm not sure if the Toronto ones did or not.

    If anyone has a Cambio Rino road racing bike, out of Italy, ideally in a size between 56cm-60cm, I would be very interested in seeing the bike or learning about it's geopmetry. inclinometers are cheap on ebay... quite handy (but the bike has to be perfectly vertical, with the drivetrain side leaned against the wall, and the inclinometer held perfectly in the same plane as the frameset, and top tube angle needs to be measured as well in case there is a slight difference in rims or tire size/inflation).
    Last edited by Timmi; 10-15-08 at 09:45 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Timmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
    My experience indicate resale value would probably be poor. Value in the bicycle market seems to be driven by drive by prestige, quality and rarity, in that order. Very few people have heard of Cambio Rino and consequently there is little prestige associated with them. This is compounded by the fact that they used their own components rather than Campagnolo. Generally, cyclists associate the quality of the frame with the tubing and/or level of components on it. Since the components have no readily associated reputation, they draw down the value. Now rarity is the one thing Cambio Rino does have, but it's not enough. It may interest a former owner of one or collector of oddballs, but most people will pass them over.
    Sadly you are right. However, I own an original from Italy Cambio Rino track bike. With the increasing popularity of singlespeeds, I think this ride's value has nowhere to go but up.

    It is in mint condition (has only seen a velodrome, little mileage, never seen dirt or rain), paint is red and original with almost no scratches. Components are all original (a mix of Gipiemme, 3ttt, Vittoria, and Cambio Rino). Tubing is the strongest and stiffest that came out of a Columbus factory back then (Zeta, not their thinnest but stiff as hell - what a strong rider loves), and it has a nice chromed fork with Columbus cast semi-sloping fork crown, Columbus fork blades. Quite a ride, I can tell you. I valuate it at $2000, because it's in mint condition and is one of the italian originals, not a fake canadian knock-off. Of course, you can get a brand new track bike for the same price... but I prefer to look at it the other way around: for the same price as a new bike, you can get an original, hand crafted, italian bike, that is in new condition. The choice for me is easy.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigrrrtamer View Post
    If anyone has a Cambio Rino road racing bike, out of Italy, I would be very interested in seeing the bike or learning about it's geopmetry. inclinometers are cheap on ebay... quite handy (but the bike has to be perfectly vertical, with the drivetrain side leaned against the wall, and the inclinometer held perfectly in the same plane as the frameset, and top tube angle needs to be measured as well in case there is a slight difference in rims or tire size/inflation).

    82 cambio rino chrono
    st-50 cm(c-c)
    tt-51.5 cm
    ha-~72.2 degree
    sa-~74.8 degree

    Last edited by caterham; 10-15-08 at 02:17 AM.

  11. #11
    Prodigal road guy MajorA's Avatar
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    Not to confuse matters, but I have a 1984-ish Scapin which is partially kitted out with Cambio Rino parts. My understanding from research when I picked it up off of eBay was that the bike was an entry level racer (Columbus Aelle tubing) which originally shipped with a mix of parts, including Campy 980 derailleurs, a Gipemme bottom bracket (Italian thread) and crankset, Modolo Flash brakes ... and Cambio Rino hubs laced to Cambio Rino tubular rims, a Cambio Rino headset, and **maybe** a Cambio Rino (but Scapin-panto'ed) stem (I'd have to look the next time I extract the stem).

    Given the mix and predominant price point of the parts, I'd always assumed that Cambio Rino parts of that era were kind of like Ofmega or Gipemme, i.e. trying to match Campy quality, but always a notch or two down, at least in the eyes of the buying public.

    That said, my Scapin is one hell of a fun, lively ride, and the wheels roll just as smooth as the Campy tubular wheelset from the same era which I have.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Timmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caterham View Post
    82 cambio rino chrono
    st-50 cm(c-c) tt-51.5 cm ha-~72.2 degree sa-~74.8 degree
    Thanks for that. Time-trial/triathlon frames, and smaller 19" frames, tend to have slacker head tube angles. This bike meets both those criteria: it is a 19", and a time trial/triathlon bike (hence it's "chronos" designation). However, I'd love to be proven wrong on that and would be open to getting measurements of a larger frame, 22" - 24" (56-60cm) if anyone comes across this post.

    I think what we need to look for is "Corsa"... I just don't know if my memory is correct on that. But I think it was a Corsa.

    My my... this is more difficult than I thought! Thanks anyways for the effort - it's very much appreciated.
    Last edited by Timmi; 10-15-08 at 09:12 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigrrrtamer View Post
    Thanks for that. Time-trial/triathlon frames, and smaller 19" frames, tend to have slacker head tube angles. This bike meets both those criteria: it is a 19", and a time trial/triathlon bike (hence it's "chronos" designation). However, I'd love to be proven wrong on that and would be open to getting measurements of a larger frame, 22" - 24" (56-60cm) if anyone comes across this post.

    I think what we need to look for is "Corsa"... I just don't know if my memory is correct on that. But I think it was a Corsa.

    My my... this is more difficult than I thought! Thanks anyways for the effort - it's very much appreciated.

    actually, my cambio rino is a road bike using classic italian stage geometry and this particular model was named after the rino crono road group with which it was 'factory' equipped. it is not a time trial or triathlon specific design.

    you are absolutely correct in that correctly proportioned small framesets will invariably tend to have slacker headtube angles and steeper seatubes than those of larger sizes (ie-the steepish seatubes to match the shorter amount of required setback of the smaller rider and the slacker headtube angle to minimise toe overlap and to maintain a reasonable wheelbase & f/r weigh distribution)

    for comparison, my 50.5 cm de rosa of similar vintage has a headtube angle of approx. 73.3 degrees and a seatube angle of approx 75 degrees. all 3 of my modern cinellis, also 50 cm in size have 72 degree headtubes and 74 degree seatubes.

    ime, my cambio rino's angles are very representative and typical of many other quality italian road bikes of the time. it's handling is very good as measured by any standard however and imo, it's high quality handling behaviour is most likely attributable to a matching of the fork rake to the given frame size in order to achieve the builder's preferred trail figures. unfortunately i have no reliable means of measuring it's fork rake/offset.

    best,
    k
    Last edited by caterham; 10-16-08 at 12:49 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigrrrtamer View Post

    I think what we need to look for is "Corsa"... I just don't know if my memory is correct on that. But I think it was a Corsa.









  15. #15
    Senior Member Timmi's Avatar
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    To measure fork rake, there are 2 easy ways, the first, quoted from a bike geometry compilation project, but if you like life to be simple, skip to the other second method.
    "Front-end geometry is the hard part. Here I like to put the bike on the ground with the front wheel on a piece of white paper, sitting as level as possible and blocked so it does not roll - little pieces of wood again. The front wheel contact is vertically under the QR skewer, so you can mark the contact point on the paper. I use a yardstick (aluminum for stability) to project the head tube/quill center line down to the floor, then I need an assistant (fellow cyclist/geometry dweeb is best, wife is second best, cat is worst) to mark the contact point. Then you can measure trail directly. Armed with math skills, the head tube angle, the trail, and a calculator, you can compute fork offset. You can also measure it directly from the yardstick with a second ruler, if everything is held steady and your eyeball is good, to approximate the perpendicular distance. If the fork is off the bike, you can block the steer tube so its level on a level table, then measure the height of the steer tube to the tabletop and the height of the dropout center to the tabletop. This is a direct measurement of the fork offset."

    I run a string - you need quality string, not the cheap twisted frazzly stuff that is usd for tying small parcels. I found an old spool of sew-up tires thread. It's thin enough for precise measurements, strong enough to be strung without braking, and flexible enough for nice straight lines.
    With the front sheel off, run the string through the front dropouts, and up over the steering stem extention. If need be, put a piece of handlebar tape or masking tape or electrician's tape over the stem extention (something that will keep the thread from slipping). NOt over the thread, but under it. If there is a slight slant to your stem, slide the thread to where it is shortest and tie your knot.
    Then, adjust the thread so that it is parallel to the headtube. With sight, all the threads must be parallel, co-planar - in cluding the segment that runs through the dropouts. (for the readers who may now know what co-planar is, it means they're all in a same plane... in other words, if you had a plate of glass up against the threads, none of then would have any extremity lifting off of it, they would all be paralell to it in all directions.
    I hope you have a vernier caliper, because it's the easiest way. But a tape measure can do as well.
    Now just place your vernier caliper to measure the distance from behind the steering column to the threads, placing it at a height where you can get both threads behind the jaw for good alignment. Visually make sure that your vernier is perpendicular to the head tube. Take your reading. Measure the diameter of the head tube (I suppose if you're using a tape measure you can always look up what that diameter would be - not to be confused with the diameter of the steering column that goes through the inside of it as that one would be 1-1/8 but that's not what you want). Divide the head tube diameter by 2. Subtract it from your distance, and you have your fork rake. See, it's easy... the hardest part was reading this all.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Timmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
    Please start a new thread, rather than opening up a five year old one.

    Actually, you need to pay for a site membership that allows you to sell/advertise your bike.


    Or just use Craigs List.
    thanks for that...
    I'm just not sure that we want to pollute this site with a new thread expressly for his particular cheap model...

    do you moderators "close" threads after a certain time period? I mean, if they're too old to post under, do you close them?

    thanks for leaving this one open though... as we're still looking for a vintage Cambio Rino racing bike to take angle measurements off of.

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