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Old 11-22-04, 08:11 PM   #1
maestro862
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Hi everyone, I just joined. The site looks great, lots of good info.
Here is my problem. I am trying to ID a Bianchi I purchased 6 years ago at the salvation army...
The Frame is gunmetal with white Bianchi decals and says Alloro...
I also seem to remember a decal that said PIAGGIO but it fell off.
Now unless Bianchi used Celeste primer, I am 99% sure this is a respray, hence my not trusting the decals...

The bike came with:
3TTTbar and stem
Modolo Sporting hoods (the drilled-out ones) and brakes
Campagnolo "NUOVO GRAN SPORT" Rear derailleur
Campagnolo front derailleur
Campagnolo braze-on downtube shifters
Gran Sport seat post (27.2)
Bianchi leather seat
Bianchi cranks w/ 42/52 chainrings
Ofmega quill pedals with "Bianchi Rekord" leather toe straps and Ale alloy toe clips
The dropouts say GIPIEMME and have adjusters
B is recessed on top of both seatstays as well as on either side of the fork crow (top)
Italian BB
The only # I could find are on the seatlug 3.M on the right side and 1311 on the left

Any help is welcome.
I will try to post pics even though the components have all been upgraded

Last edited by maestro862; 11-23-04 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 11-23-04, 12:30 PM   #2
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Here are some pics of the bike as it is today
Most of the bike's components that came with the bike
Some close up of the frame (lugs + the only numbers that appear on the frame)
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Old 11-23-04, 01:15 PM   #3
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Piaggio was the co-sponsor for the Bianchi pro team from about 1980-1983. I'm not sure if there was a corporate tie, but the bicycles from that period did have Piaggio decals. The Nuovo Gran Sport was made from 1974-1985, so that fits. I've also seen early '80s models with the embossed B within a circle on the stay cap and frames in that dark anthracite grey.

Campagnolo date coded their high end equipment, but I"m not sure about Gran Sport. Look for a patent date on the rear derailleur. The cranks may also have a code on the back. A diamond represents the '70s and a circle the '80s. A numeral within the symbol represents the last digit of the year of manufacture. Good Luck!
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Old 11-23-04, 01:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Piaggio was the co-sponsor for the Bianchi pro team from about 1980-1983. I'm not sure if there was a corporate tie, but the bicycles from that period did have Piaggio decals. The Nuovo Gran Sport was made from 1974-1985, so that fits. I've also seen early '80s models with the embossed B within a circle on the stay cap and frames in that dark anthracite grey.

Campagnolo date coded their high end equipment, but I"m not sure about Gran Sport. Look for a patent date on the rear derailleur. The cranks may also have a code on the back. A diamond represents the '70s and a circle the '80s. A numeral within the symbol represents the last digit of the year of manufacture. Good Luck!
Thanks for the insight.
The rear derailleur only says"PATENT" with no date...as for the cranks, the say "170 STRADA" 170 being the crankarm length and "9/16X20F" by the "pedal hole". I am not sure about that one. Thread size maybe?
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Old 11-23-04, 01:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by maestro862
Thanks for the insight.
The rear derailleur only says"PATENT" with no date...as for the cranks, the say "170 STRADA" 170 being the crankarm length and "9/16X20F" by the "pedal hole". I am not sure about that one. Thread size maybe?
Yes, 9/16" diameter, 20 threads per inch.

Your bike sounds similar to mine: Modolo Speedy brakes; Campag. N. Record derailleurs, pat. 1980; Ofmega crankset 52-42; Campag. Gran Sport pedals; Campag. seatpost; Bianchi/TTT stem; Ofmega low-flange 36-hole hubset; Regina America 13-23 6-speed freewheel; rare metallic "Ralph Lauren brown"/charcoal colour; TreTubi frame

Do you have stickers identifying frame pedigree, such as "TreTubi" or "Columbus"?
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Old 11-23-04, 01:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by John E
Yes, 9/16" diameter, 20 threads per inch.

Your bike sounds similar to mine: Modolo Speedy brakes; Campag. N. Record derailleurs, pat. 1980; Ofmega crankset 52-42; Campag. Gran Sport pedals; Campag. seatpost; Bianchi/TTT stem; Ofmega low-flange 36-hole hubset; Regina America 13-23 6-speed freewheel; rare metallic "Ralph Lauren brown"/charcoal colour; TreTubi frame

Do you have stickers identifying frame pedigree, such as "TreTubi" or "Columbus"?
Unfortunately not. All stickers that remain are the white "Bianchi" logos on the downtube and seattube as well as the "made in Italy" that appear in my close up pics.
I do have the Ofmega crankset 52-42; Campag. Gran Sport pedals; Campag. seatpost; Bianchi/TTT stem; Ofmega low-flange 36-hole hubset; Regina America 13-23 6-speed freewheel; rare metallic "Ralph Lauren brown"/charcoal colour which, by the way, is an excellent description of the paint job.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:25 PM   #7
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There's a remote possibility that the back of the hub locknuts may have a two digit year code. Many Italian manufacturers used Campagnolo hardware for their hubs. I known that Gipiemme did during this period.

Further to John E.'s tubing enquiry, if there are spiral reinforcements in the bottom of the fork's steerer tube, then it is Columbus tubing, though the grade is indeterminate. However, even without the spirals, it could still have Columbus main tubes. As John E. notes, many mid level Bianchi models came with Tre Tubi frames that used higher grades of tubing in the three main tubes, with lesser grades employed for the stays and forks.

Sorry about leading you astray with date codes for the cranks. I didn't realize they were Ofmega. They looked like Campagnolo in the picture.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar
There's a remote possibility that the back of the hub locknuts may have a two digit year code. Many Italian manufacturers used Campagnolo hardware for their hubs. I known that Gipiemme did during this period.

Further to John E.'s tubing enquiry, if there are spiral reinforcements in the bottom of the fork's steerer tube, then it is Columbus tubing, though the grade is indeterminate. However, even without the spirals, it could still have Columbus main tubes. As John E. notes, many mid level Bianchi models came with Tre Tubi frames that used higher grades of tubing in the three main tubes, with lesser grades employed for the stays and forks.

Sorry about leading you astray with date codes for the cranks. I didn't realize they were Ofmega. They looked like Campagnolo in the picture.
My bad, the cranks are "Bianchi". They came with 52,42 chainrings.

As for the hub locknuts, I couldn't find any code either.

No spiral in the fork steerer tube but I did find a bike that is a "celeste" carbon copy of mine (at least from the outside) here. The only difference is I have the original quill Ofmega pedals with "Bianchi Rekord" leather toe straps and Ale alloy toe clips...and the color of course

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Old 11-24-04, 08:36 PM   #9
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I have a kooky theory. Your bike looks very much like mine, except for the Bianchi decals (mine are gold) and the Bianchi-branded Ofmega crankset. (Mine had the earlier Ofmega-branded Ofmega CX crankset.) My serial number is 1M9912, yours is 3M1311; does this make mine a 1981 and yours a 1983? (I have yet to find anyone who has deciphered Bianchi serial numbers!)

"Ralph Lauren brown" is my artist wife's term for the colour of my Bianchi. There aren't too many brown Bianchis out there, and I think it looks pretty sharp. The original sales receipt from Leucadia Cyclery described the colour as "charcoal." (The other option for that model and year was, of course, Celeste #217.)
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Old 11-25-04, 12:16 AM   #10
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I was fortunate enough to race for an Italian team in 93/94 season and we where given Bianchi bike's so in 93 my bike had a "B" on the top tube lug and the lugs where made by Gippemme and I know Campy made them too.

On the lugs of the fork there was the Bianchi emblem.
The back wheel drop outs did have adjustments. The groupset I had was the "C" Record with the Delta brakes.

But as far as I can remember all Bianchi (Italian made) where Celeste in colour and the Asia imports were other colours.
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Old 11-25-04, 07:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John E
"Ralph Lauren brown" is my artist wife's term for the colour of my Bianchi. There aren't too many brown Bianchis out there, and I think it looks pretty sharp. The original sales receipt from Leucadia Cyclery described the colour as "charcoal." (The other option for that model and year was, of course, Celeste #217.)
If you look at some of the old Bianchi catalogues from this era, they call the colour "amethyst"! It would seem that Bianchi had a thing for colour descriptions that didn't didn't quite match with the perception of the general population. Personally, I think "charcoal" and "anthracite" are pretty good descriptions.
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Old 11-26-04, 02:19 PM   #12
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I just stumbled across some specs to a 1984 Allegro which match yours with the following exceptions: Ofmega Competizone crankset, San Marco seat post, Selle Italia saddle, Weinmann 605 brakes. The cranks and saddle may be match, with Bianchi simply having contracted the respective companies to label them with Bianchi. The specs even mention the "engraved "B" top eyes and fork crown". Given the serial number, I suspect your is a 1983 model as John E. suggests.

BTW, the 1984 model's tubset is Columbus Aelle, throughout. I suspect yours is the same. MSR was $499.00 US.
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Old 11-26-04, 02:27 PM   #13
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MSR was $499.00 US.
a bit off topic...

I've been having the hardest time trying to locate the msrp of my 1981 Tipo Corsa. Was this model by chance in the literature you stumbled acoss?

just curious.
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Old 11-26-04, 04:39 PM   #14
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a bit off topic...

I've been having the hardest time trying to locate the msrp of my 1981 Tipo Corsa. Was this model by chance in the literature you stumbled acoss?

just curious.
No it wasn't. However, if you post the tubeset and components I should be able to provide a reasonable estimate of the price range, based on similar bicycles of the era. Or maybe someone else will know.

On behalf of John E, what is the serial number of your 1981 Tipo Corsa? Thxs.
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Old 11-26-04, 09:22 PM   #15
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... On behalf of John E, what is the serial number of your 1981 Tipo Corsa? Thxs.
Thanks, T-Mar. I can confidently bracket my model year as 1980, 1981, or 1982, with 1981 being the most likely.
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Old 11-27-04, 09:32 AM   #16
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Thanks, T-Mar. I can confidently bracket my model year as 1980, 1981, or 1982, with 1981 being the most likely.
The sample right now is too small to have much confidence, but it would appear that the first digit of the serial number represents the year of manufacture. The letter may be a decade indicator. Bianchi started production in 1885. If you assign A to the 1880s and extrapolate forward, the 1980s come out as K. However, if throw out the I, which could be confused with 1, that makes L the 1980s designator. Throw out one more letter and M would represent the 1980s. However, I can't come up with a rationale for throwing out another letter.

There's nothing conclusive here, I'm just sounding a possibility. The letter could also be a facility or craftsman identifier, or something altogether different.
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Old 11-27-04, 11:09 AM   #17
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In 1885 they might not have even had serial numbers on there bikes because they were probably a fairly small builder.
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Old 11-27-04, 12:54 PM   #18
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In 1885 they might not have even had serial numbers on there bikes because they were probably a fairly small builder.
That would not surpise me. However, I know of cases where manufacturers have reverse engineered coding systems so that the beginning of a code system corrsponds to the company's origin. The fact that the product was not coded during the initial years is of no consequence. The companies simply wanted to have a neat, clean system with a point of origin that employees could easily relate to.

My suggestion could very well be off base and was only thrown out as a possibility. We will have a better idea only when several Bianchi serial numbers for which the model year is known. However, this format does appear to be restricted to Italian manufactured frames. I have seen several Japanese built frames from the same period that use other serial number formats.
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Old 11-27-04, 05:07 PM   #19
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where would I find the serial number?

the frameset is mere tretubi, but the components are pure campy (mixed nuovo record/super record), and are all original to the bike.

the rims are mavic.

here is a link to a catalog picture of my bike...

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/bianchi4/7.jpg

let me know what you think it may have run for back in 1981.

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Old 11-28-04, 06:34 PM   #20
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Stormywaters, I didn't have much luck finding comparable Italian bicycles from the era. Tretubi frames with a NR/SR mix apparently weren't that common. My guess, and that's all it is, would be somewhere around $1000.00 US. Anyone else? Did you check the seat lug for the serial number?
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Old 11-29-04, 11:52 PM   #21
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the seat lug has 2.A on one side and 099 on the other.

so, what does that mean?

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Old 11-30-04, 07:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormywaters
the seat lug has 2.A on one side and 099 on the other.

so, what does that mean?
I'm not postive, however it appears the '2' appears to be the last digit of the year the frame was made (i.e. 1982). The 'A' could represent a production period (fortnight, month, decade, etc.) or even a factory. The '099' is almost certainly the 99th frame produced during the production period.

Recently, several early 1980s Bianchi had appeared with 'M' codes, leading me to think that the 'M' may have been the decade or possibly the factory location (Milano). However, your 'A' code would seem to disprove those theories and indicate that the handful of 'M' codes were simply co-incidence.

The most likely possibilities now are that the letter indicates a fortnight or month. Twenty-six fortnights in a year neatly covers the alphabet and was a common production period utilized by other European factories (i.e. Raleigh). Twelve months normally covers A-L, but Bianchi may have skipped "I" as it could have been misinterpreted as a the numeral "1". Discovery of Bianchi letter codes higher than 'M' would shift the most likely possibilty towards a fortnight designation.

Of course, the other possibility is that the numeral is the production period indicator and the letter designates the year. While this cannot be ruled out, the samples of early 1980s Bianchi all seem to have 1,2 or 3 codes, pointing to 1981, 1982 or 1983. Again, this could simply be co-incidence. To increase our confidence we need more Bianchi serial numbers, where we known the year or approximate year of the frame.

Well, John E, what do you think? Year.fortnight? Should we create a new post requesting serial numbers for Italian built Bianchi? I'm willing to analyze the data if you think it is worthwhile.

Stormywaters, you can verify the year somewhat by checking the date codes on the Campagnolo parts, assuming they are all original. There should be a patent date on the rear derailleur, double digit year codes on the back of the hub locknuts and a single digit year code inside a circle on the back on the crankarms. If the frame was built in the first fortnight (or month) of 1982, then these codes would most likely be Patent 81, 81 and 1 respectively.
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Old 11-30-04, 09:00 AM   #23
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Should we create a new post requesting serial numbers for Italian built Bianchi? I'm willing to analyze the data if you think it is worthwhile.
T-Mar
I think that is a great idea. Obviouly, we are on to something. "Cracking" the Bianchi frame code would certainly help people in the future. Like you mentioned, unless we can find a frame with a letter higher than M, the month seems more likely. I would tend to lean more towards the month at this point but we shall see...
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Old 11-30-04, 08:08 PM   #24
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patent on the rear is 79.

the crank arm has a one with a circle around it, which I was told indicates 1981.

If the 2.A indicates first period of 1982 everything matches up.

keep up the work, you guys are on to something.

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Old 11-30-04, 08:31 PM   #25
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Giong slight OT, how much did you pay to replace all your components? I'm assumign they're all ultegra, (bb, headset, crankset, derailleurs, brakes, shifters, wheelset?)
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