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Old 11-24-04, 02:27 PM   #1
joeykork
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Austro-Daimler Vent-Noir II decal restore

Hi all, first time poster.

I'm restoring a Austro-Daimler Vent-Noir II. I've been making tracings and crayon rubbings of the original "Austro-Daimler" decals on the downtube. It gives me good scans and measurements of the pitch and dimensions of the lettering, but not so much the actual shapes of the glyphs (at least, not good enough to make a nice cut vinyl replacement). The originals are just too beat up for an accurate trace.

Does anyone have any better source material that can help? Maybe high res scans of old Daimler brochures and catalogs? They use the same font for the AD marque, just a tighter pitch for general reading use, but I can work with that.

Also, the "Vent-Noir II" decal on the top tube is completely gone, just a ghost mark left on the smoky chrome. I've found a good pic of the flat text sans the "II" part, but a higher res scan would still be appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 11-24-04, 02:47 PM   #2
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Can you post the scans you've got so far? I'm a graphic artist and typography is one of my niches; maybe I can clean them up for you.
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Old 11-24-04, 02:59 PM   #3
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I'm probably not as good as you, but I do an okay turn in Gimp and Blender (can't even get to that stage of the project though). I've fiddle-faddled with these for hours, so at this point I'm really jonesing for the real 1st-2nd generation McCoy graphic -- especially if its easy to be had which I suspect it will be. Thanks anyways though.
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Old 11-24-04, 04:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeykork
Hi all, first time poster.

I'm restoring a Austro-Daimler Vent-Noir II. I've been making tracings and crayon rubbings of the original "Austro-Daimler" decals on the downtube. It gives me good scans and measurements of the pitch and dimensions of the lettering, but not so much the actual shapes of the glyphs (at least, not good enough to make a nice cut vinyl replacement). The originals are just too beat up for an accurate trace.

Does anyone have any better source material that can help? Maybe high res scans of old Daimler brochures and catalogs? They use the same font for the AD marque, just a tighter pitch for general reading use, but I can work with that.

Also, the "Vent-Noir II" decal on the top tube is completely gone, just a ghost mark left on the smoky chrome. I've found a good pic of the flat text sans the "II" part, but a higher res scan would still be appreciated.

Thanks!
Hi joeykork, someone who may be able to help with that scan is "Puchultima". I suspect he'll reply when he sees your post. He was kind enough to send me scans of the Vent Noir (1st series), as I have one of them. Good luck with your project, and please post pictures! Here's one of mine:
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Old 11-25-04, 12:47 AM   #5
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I had an A-D pass thru my hands a few months ago and I'm pretty sure that the font used for the NAME (but maybe not the model name) on the down tube is a standard display font. I can't recall the name of it right now, but if you do some searching of font catalogs, both online and on paper, you should be able to find it. Then you can make the adjustments to tracking and outlining the letterforms, etc. as needed to match your decals. Rather than vinyl cut graphics, you might look into having some "chromatecs" made. These used to be very common in the graphic design comp world back around 20 years ago, and they're scarcer now but not extinct, yet. This is a 'rub-down' transfer handmade from lacquer inks and can be multicolored and have metallics or fluorescents...just costs more is all. AND you should clear-coat over them once installed for protection, though the naked rubdowns are very durable against sun and other exposure, but NOT abrasion. The rubdown supplier in my town (only one or 2 left) will work from a computer file (Adobe Illustrator is preferred) and you should consult with yours about how to set one up for best results. Fill the area (say an 8x10 sheet, whatever size you're buying) up with multiples of the graphics so you get your money's worth AND you have some extras to practice with and test the clear-coat on before you commit one to your bike. Some clear-coats will dissolve the lacquer inks and then you get "melted" logos, some will be fine... test and see.
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Old 11-25-04, 03:27 AM   #6
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Here it is
regards
from
Austria
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Old 11-25-04, 03:45 AM   #7
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Next one
I hope thats good enough

If you have the decals done send me one set for my future Bike
regards
Manfred
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Old 11-25-04, 10:35 AM   #8
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Thanks! And I'll post the results as soon as I have them for everyone to use!

I'll be making a vector-based (DXF) file that you can send to most printers, signmakers, etc.
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Old 11-25-04, 02:24 PM   #9
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According to my Letraset catalog, the name of the Austro-Daimler logo font is 'Desdemona'. The Vent Noir font is on the tip of my tongue, but so far I can't find it.
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Old 11-25-04, 07:14 PM   #10
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Yup , and I happen to have me my Office 97 disk handy. Thanks for saving me the work, though FontForge (w/ potrace) was looking to get the job done.

Still, expect a properly pitched DXF soon.

And Happy Thanksgiving!
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Old 12-05-04, 11:58 PM   #11
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There's way more to be done (the "Vent Noir", pinstripes, etc) but just to alleviate that dead-thread-feelin', here's an SVG (word to the wise...DXF is compatibility HELL) of the main decal, properly pitched to the original decal specs.

It's not perfect (the aforementioned font -- which was modified to help make this -- had a few extra serifs and the hyphen is smaller) but a printout on trace paper, humbly applied to the original decal on the frame evoked a triple gun whammy from my fingers and inexplicably vigorous strutting.

Just in case your SVG viewer makes its own wild guesses, the file was drawn in a 72 dpi scale, so be sure your program knows that so you can get an accurate printout.

Grab Inkscape if you don't even know where to start on viewing it.

Community call: could any kind soul put this to Adobe Illustrator (or some other format you think those schmancy vinyl priners would like to use)?

Happy Holidays! (since the TeeVee says we should be getting Christmas swag now...)
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Old 12-06-04, 11:00 AM   #12
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I printed out a copy from Illustrator® and it looks pretty darn close... If anything, a bit more perfect than the original decals. The originals have some edges that aren't as sharp and crisp. Looks pretty good to me!

Now, if only I had the time to spend learning Illustrator®, and the $ for a nice Alps printer & ink supply...

Happy Holidays!
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Old 12-06-04, 03:35 PM   #13
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I opened the file in Illustrator and did a little work on it. For some reason, the letter outlines weren't joined in their lower right corners, and it made the serifs look funny. I fixed that, made the 'O' more egg-shaped, lowered the crossbar in the 'E', thickened the letters a bit and adjusted the letter spacing to resemble the picture farther up in this thread. Look more like it?

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Old 12-06-04, 07:59 PM   #14
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I like the modifications, but maybe I should have clarified exactly what I did a little more.

The glyphs in the file I made are spaced so that they exactly match the spacing of the ones on the bike (measured with digital calipers). Also, I can't see any thickness improprieties when I compare with my trace paper overlay.

So, as it is, it's pretty close to the originals - at least good enough for the average retrogrouch restorer. Just the aforementioned hyphen needs tweaking. And an .ai export (can't imagine why the corners are disconnected...). So as for "look more like it": -- as nicely as I can put it -- not at all

With this in digital format though, everyone can tweak to their hearts content. I'm anxious to see what else others will do with it -- I know I won't be keeping mine spot on orignal, at least a touch of exotic color will be needed

Pinstripe paths (or at least, the crowns of them and good descptions of the straight line geometries and dimensions), outline paths of the reynolds decals (for proper replacement positioning) coming up next.
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Old 12-06-04, 08:13 PM   #15
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Oh, I see -- I was using Puchultima's picture as a guide. Oh well...
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Old 12-06-04, 10:00 PM   #16
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On my Vent Noir (the early black one), each letter appears to be a seperate decal; in fact, the R in AUSTRO was applied crookedly... I'm no decal expert, but are these "varnish fix" type, or...?
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Old 12-06-04, 10:08 PM   #17
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I have one of those but mine has the PUCH head badge not painted but the actual badge. At first it was black but after some serious rubbing with Mother's Mag polish it is now a lovely chrome. My stickers are different than the ones you are replicating though. Supposedly those frames have some kind of nick resistant coating on them.
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Old 12-08-04, 04:28 PM   #18
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I guess this could be classified as a roll...

I've got SVGs of the fork pinstriping and the downtube pinstriping (with the marques in their proper locations).

The fork was path'd pretty much freehand, so no real guarantees of matching up, although it looks much more innacurate on paper than it actually it because it's a printout of a curved surface. But, the flexibility of the trace paper (and, I surely assume a vinyl repro) allowed it to be mated with the surface without seams, so it *should* go on as it's meant to be.

I didn't put a profile of where the triangular Reynolds sticker goes (on each blade) in the file, but just stick it about 0.8 inches below the upper flat of the fork lugs and it should be okay. I'm not sure what the original angle is as both my stickers have some perceptible "sag" to 'em...

The downtube decal I am much more secure with. The fuzziest operation was the tracing of the "crowns" of the pinstripes. Technically, its freehand, but I had a computer scan overlay to help. And I made it in a way that, even if partially inaccurate, it's symmetric, so it's perfect in its imperfection, you may say

I'm all outta trace paper, so test 'em for me if you can.
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Old 12-08-04, 10:09 PM   #19
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Okay, all done (or at least all I wanted to do for my own personal project with this frame).

Do what you will with these, I could care less (unless....you try it on my frame. THEEEEEF!)

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll always be looking at this forum, and maybe still posting too.
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Old 12-08-04, 10:14 PM   #20
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Oh, forgot to mention, along with all the other discrepancies listed above, the toptube decal set ("VENT NOIR II") is outta whack with the measurements (my source is a big ghost mark on my frame and a differently pitched scan from the catalogue). I mainly eyeballed it (and, kept the height in line with measurements...the width and pitch is what's wrong)

Anyone with a surviving decal and some dial/digital calipers could help though -- just measure from the lower-left corner of the first letter to the the lower-leftleft corner of the second letter. Repeat....

If someone ever gets around to that, I might get around to revising the decal with those measurements.

Okay, with out further adieu....

DONE!
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Old 12-08-04, 10:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy
Hi joeykork, someone who may be able to help with that scan is "Puchultima". I suspect he'll reply when he sees your post. He was kind enough to send me scans of the Vent Noir (1st series), as I have one of them. Good luck with your project, and please post pictures! Here's one of mine:
That is one sharp-looking bike, even if it is from the "other" Austrian bike manufacturer.
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Old 12-08-04, 10:53 PM   #22
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That is one sharp-looking bike, even if it is from the "other" Austrian bike manufacturer.
I guess you mean mine..? Thanks
Dig them early Dura-Ace cranks dad:

Last edited by TheOtherGuy; 12-08-04 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 07-11-15, 11:25 AM   #23
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God I hate bikeforums. I had posted the SVG years ago but I guess it was purged for some reason.
I get PMs for it all the time and do not have enough "points" to reply to them.

DIAF bike forums .... bikes.StackExchange will win in the end.

Anywho, I'll see if I can dig the SVG up and reattach it, and mirror somewhere else.
My Vent-Noir was stolen on tour in 2005, so I can't remeasure. Le sigh..

Last edited by joeykork; 07-11-15 at 11:27 AM. Reason: history
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Old 09-25-15, 09:54 AM   #24
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STOLEN! That is truly, truly a crime. Let me know if you want any photos of my A-D V-N.
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Old 09-25-15, 10:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by joeykork View Post
God I hate bikeforums. I had posted the SVG years ago but I guess it was purged for some reason.
I get PMs for it all the time and do not have enough "points" to reply to them.

DIAF bike forums .... bikes.StackExchange will win in the end.

Anywho, I'll see if I can dig the SVG up and reattach it, and mirror somewhere else.
My Vent-Noir was stolen on tour in 2005, so I can't remeasure. Le sigh..
All 15 of your posts in the past 11 years, you dig up an 11 year old post for no apparent reason other than telling us to die in a fire.

Nice to see you too.
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