Viscount Aerospace in Bare Metal
#1
Gone World Hepster
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
4 Posts
Viscount Aerospace in Bare Metal
I'd like to solicit comments on the brazing as shown in the attached photos of my Viscount Aerospace. It's my oldest bike in terms of seniority in the stable and I'm planning to have it powder coated by a local guy. It's been media blasted clean and will be getting the new color later today. I know nothing about brazing and would just like to see what folks with more experience than I have to say. If anybody can interpret the SN on the bb shell that would be a plus.
#2
Rustbelt Rider
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 9,125
Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Liked 369 Times
in
175 Posts
I've got a couple of these filet brazed Viscounts, it's cool to see them in the buff and so clean. I don't know anything about brazing either but the work doesn't look very tidy to my eye. It reminds me of the filet brazed Schwinns, get the joints that can be seen acceptable looking and don't touch the rest. Is that a void around the chainstays by the bottom bracket?
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,671
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1370 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,743 Times
in
934 Posts
It looks to me like the metal was not hot enough to properly allow the brass to flow and be pulled into the joints. Is this a problem? Probably not but one can never tell for sure.
Look inside of the bottom bracket housing. Can you see the if the brass has reached into the cavity? If so, that would be a very good sign. If not, it would be a bad sign.
Hope this is a help.
Look inside of the bottom bracket housing. Can you see the if the brass has reached into the cavity? If so, that would be a very good sign. If not, it would be a bad sign.
Hope this is a help.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
#5
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,869
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times
in
952 Posts
Just to add to mkeller's comment in regard to the Schwinn Super Sport, Sports Tourer brazing, it looks about as non-neat, but my eye says the Aerospace has less. Of course comparing pictures to what I've actually seen (Schwinns), is not a fair comparison. Plus comparing painted to bare is also a tough comparison.
How about this as a sampling?
1965 Super Sport Head Tube:
1972 Super Sport Head Tube:^
How about this as a sampling?
1965 Super Sport Head Tube:
1972 Super Sport Head Tube:^
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,138
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times
in
27 Posts
It looks generally clean, no big gaps, bubbles or splatter. Just a very small gap at the right chainstay tip/rear DO juncture which looks like nothing to worry about.
I also thought those were big voids at the BB/inner chainstay areas, but if they are just discoloration, then you look to be OK.
Peugeot's brazing on similar frames from the 80's was cleaner as they used an internal brazing method where brazing material on the exterior surfaces of the mitered joint was minimal. I wondered if Peugeot pantents kept other manufacturers from doing the same??
I do like the way the frame joints on these Viscounts blended better together though with the radiused brazed fillets.
Chombi
I also thought those were big voids at the BB/inner chainstay areas, but if they are just discoloration, then you look to be OK.
Peugeot's brazing on similar frames from the 80's was cleaner as they used an internal brazing method where brazing material on the exterior surfaces of the mitered joint was minimal. I wondered if Peugeot pantents kept other manufacturers from doing the same??
I do like the way the frame joints on these Viscounts blended better together though with the radiused brazed fillets.
Chombi
#10
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,869
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times
in
952 Posts
In the raw, we can certainly see how a Super Sport uses very generous brazing when compared to the Aerospace.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Willy, VIC
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I'm not so sure about the safety of that. To my eye, that looks like some of the zinc has corroded out of the joint, leaving copper behind.
A possible sequence of events that would lead to this:
Paint cracks, allowing water to seep onto joint.
Water gets dirty / salty enough to conduct and act as bridge.
Galvanic cell occurs between iron of frame and zinc in braze. In this situation the zinc would be the anode which loses cations (the zinc) into the bridge solution.
A possible sequence of events that would lead to this:
Paint cracks, allowing water to seep onto joint.
Water gets dirty / salty enough to conduct and act as bridge.
Galvanic cell occurs between iron of frame and zinc in braze. In this situation the zinc would be the anode which loses cations (the zinc) into the bridge solution.
#12
Gone World Hepster
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
4 Posts
Mark Kelly thanks for the metallurgic analysis, interesting to say the least. The frame was sound throughout and here's the result of a two-step powdercoating: step one, silver metallic base layer and step two a translucent blue top coat. I was trying to get close to the original Viscount blue even though mine was the silver/black paint scheme in it's original outfit.
#14
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,869
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times
in
952 Posts
Beautiful! The color is fantastic! Reminds me of Schwinn's early '60s Radiant Blue.
Do you have any closeup pictures of the fillet joints after the PC has been applied?
Do you have any closeup pictures of the fillet joints after the PC has been applied?
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#15
is just a real cool dude
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Thumb, MI
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times
in
11 Posts
I was wondering the same thing about closeup shots of the joints. When I had my Sports Tourer powder coated the guy who sprayed it said he had a very hard time getting the powder coat to stick to the brass. Then after it was done you could vaguely see the gold color of the brass through the silver powder coat. I have some pictures of it but I actually just sold it about two weeks ago as it was a little too big for me.
#16
Gone World Hepster
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
4 Posts
I'll try to get some closeups of the joints post-powder but it will probably be later in the week--I'm running behind on getting ready to head to Denver for a holiday weekend wedding. The powdercoating is by a young guy who just opened up a shop in his remodeled garage and he does super nice work on blasting, coating and detailing at very reasonable prices: the total cost for everything was just under $150 and I'm really pleased with the results. I've got some original Viscount/Trusty factory decals to apply later in the week.