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Thread: campagnolo

  1. #1
    as you wish, skeletor. ephemeralskin's Avatar
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    campagnolo

    is there a good website that shows the chronology with all the different quality levels during each manufacturing period? or could someone run through it for me? the official website only goes up to like 1975 or so.
    i can find the differences b/t all the current gruppos (chorus, record, etc) but cant find out about older product divisions.
    particularly, i see a lot of people selling strada cranksets on ebay and calling them nuovo record. i dont get what the difference is...
    thanks!

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  2. #2
    Knows Bigfoot's Momma
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeralskin
    i i see a lot of people selling strada cranksets on ebay and calling them nuovo record. i dont get what the difference is...
    thanks!
    STRADA means road in Italian. PISTA would be for track use. Strada has nothing to do with the actual group the part is for. Nuovo Record was a popular group from about '68 or so, 'till about '85. Nuovo was the top dog 'till Super Record came out, around '74. Have a look at the timeline here:

    http://www.velo-retro.com/tline.html

    This may help you a bit.

  3. #3
    as you wish, skeletor. ephemeralskin's Avatar
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    ahhhh. very much like strasse auf deutsch. cool.

    whats up with c(orsa) vs sr?

    also is there a timeline/list including all the low-end component lines?

    'Fun means something that makes you feel good. Someone who likes movies might watch a movie for fun. Games are also a way to have fun. Most people like to have fun. [citation needed]' -simple.wikipedia.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeralskin
    ahhhh. very much like strasse auf deutsch. cool.

    whats up with c(orsa) vs sr?

    also is there a timeline/list including all the low-end component lines?
    Corsa is known as C-Record, and it was introduced in '84.
    Super Record & Nuovo was still selling for another couple years; the very last of it was supposedly made in '87. Seems some die-hards then still wanted the Super & Nuovo, 'cause it was more traditional...? About the time C-Record was introduced ('84), Campagnolo also came out with Victory and Triomph... So, here were several groups available at that time (probably Nuovo Gran Sport as well)... I think it was right around '87 that the Super & Nuovo were officially dropped; they'd been around for a long time by then, and Croce d'Aune came out, and maybe at that same time, Chorus. Croce was actually #2 then, with cool parts and finish nearly like C-Record. Chorus was in the #3 spot, and I think Victory & Triomph may have disappeared... Not sure exactly when that happened. Anyway, a couple of years later (maybe around '90?), Croce was dropped, and Chorus was #2.... I'm probably off a bit on some of this, but probably not too far. I doubt there are any other timelines that cover the lower-end groups, as it's really the Pro stuff that most people are interested in.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    A very basic top of the line Campagnolo derailleur timeline:

    1933-1956 two seatstay mounted gear system, known in Italian as 'due stecche' or two lever, also called in North America as 'Cambio Corsa' which translates to racing derailleur. This seatstay derailleur system was also available with longer levers, which was called 'Cambio Sport'.
    1948-1956 Single seatstay mounted gear system, originally known in Italian by the name 'una stecca' or one lever. This was one level up from the 'due stecche'. After Fausto Coppi's win in the Paris-Roubaix race, using this gear system, it became officially known by the name Paris-Roubaix. Both the Paris-Roubaix and 'due stecche' were supposedly last made in 1954, but were still available for perhaps as many as 3 years thereafter.
    1951-early 1960's Gran Sport. This was the new top dog of the Campagnolo range, quickly replacing both the 'due stecche' and paris-roubaix.
    1960-1968 Record. This took the place of the Gran Sport in the Campagnolo range and was in many respects simply an updated version of the previous model.
    1967-1986 Nuovo Record (Italian for new record). This was effectively an alloy version of the Record model.
    1972-1986 Super Record for racing and Rally for touring. The Rally derailleur was more or less the first true touring derailleur offered by Campagnolo and was often sold in Italy with a Nuovo Record front plate. The Super Record was lightened by use of Titanium parts and was a slightly updated version of the Nuovo Record.
    1984-1990's C-Record. This was an aerodynamic version update of the Nuovo Record. For the few years that it ran alongside the Nuovo Record and Super Record, it was far more expensive (20% more expensive, hence the reason that many still went for the older nuovo record and super record)

    As you can see, the new top of the line derailleur was generally introduced while maintaining the previous model still in the line-up. Below the top of the line derailleurs, there were a number of 'lesser' models. Alongside the Gran Sport, Campagnolo offered the Sport. Alongside the Record, they offered the sportman. Alongside the Nuovo Record, they had the Valentino, Nuovo Sport, Valentino Extra, Sport Extra, Velox, Gran Turismo, Nuovo Gran Sport, 980, 990. Alongside the C-Record they had the Victory, Triomphe, New Victory, New Triomphe.

    The lowest on the heap at all times they were offered were the Velox and Sport. Just above these, if they were being offered concurrently with the Velox and Sport, you would find the various versions of the Valentino and the Sportsman. Above the Valentino, when offered concurrently, you had the 980 and it successor the 990, Above the Valentino, 980 and 990, when offered concurrently, you had the Nuovo Gran Sport. The only true option to the top of the line touring Rally derailleur was the economical Gran Turismo. This was however designed for a completely different application so cannot readily be compared to 'racing' derailleurs.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeralskin
    particularly, i see a lot of people selling strada cranksets on ebay and calling them nuovo record. i dont get what the difference is...
    thanks!
    If you want to be nit-picky, there was never a pair of Nuovo Record cranks. There was only a pair of Record cranks (part 1049). The Record cranks would then be fitted with either Record chainrings (part 753) or the lightened version called Super Record chainrings (part 753/A). Record chainrings are much sturdier with what appears to be double bracing, whereas the Super Record rings are lightened with only single bracing. Record cranks were made in both road (strada) track (pista) and triple versions (with added threaded hole for mounting smaller cog).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnalsaam
    .The lowest on the heap at all times they were offered were the Velox and Sport. Just above these, if they were being offered concurrently with the Velox and Sport, you would find the various versions of the Valentino and the Sportsman.
    Velox was above Valentino.

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    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar
    Velox was above Valentino.
    If price is an indication of the ranking of the derailleur, the Valentino Extra was priced in Campagnolo's Italian wholesale pricelist for varying prices reaching a peak of Lit 14,139. The Velox price never exceeded Lit 12,000. As far as material quality goes, they both used largely identical parts, without either ever being significantly different from the other. The biggest difference was the mounting point of the pulley cage. The Velox cage pivoted around the upper pulley mount, whereas the Valentino pivoted at a point below and between the two pulleys. Under typical 'Campagnolo' gear ratio test shift patterns, the Valentino shifted better than the Velox. The Velox was an economical solution proposed as an answer to requests from foreign markets where different gear ratios than those generally found in Italy were used.

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    Dualsaam, thank-you for your informative analysis of the Cmapagnolo groups and Velox versus Valentino in particular. There is no doubt about the similarity of Velox and Valentino. My version of their relative positions is based on three observations:

    1. When Velox and Valentino both appeared in manufacturer's line-up, the Velox appeared on the higher model.

    2. Parts distributors' catalogues listed the Velox at a higher price.

    3. The Velox had the 'camel hump' friction adjusters on it's lever set at a time when the Valentino friction adjusters were screws with slotted drive. The ability to do 'hands only, on the fly' adjustments to the Velox levers was a feature that placed them above the Valentino, which required a screwdriver. Also, the Velox levers went on to be used with the mid-range Nuovo Gran Sport derailleurs. The Valentino levers did get go on to get their own thumbscrews but initially they were a flat, knurled disc that was replaced by some plastic wingnuts.

    Perhaps, given the relative merits, this is a case of splitting hairs, but I just thought I'd let you know my rationale and solicit your thoughts on them.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    Both the Velox and Valentino were low end, not to be confused with other models in the Campagnolo range, so it is indeed splitting hairs. As stated before, it would appear that the Velox was made for use in the non-Italian, non-traditional Campagnolo market. Similar to an OEM product. As far as price goes, the Italian wholesale price lists that I have, show the Valentino to be higher priced. If in other markets the Velox was higher priced, it would tend to point to a marketing scheme. As far as the levers go, I wouldn't read too much into it. The Gran Sport was initially offered in the 50's as either screw or thumb-screw. The Valentino also was first offered with thumb-screw some time between the 1968 catalog and the 1974 catalog, but by the time of the printing of the 1975 catalog, they once again only appear as screw mount only. It would appear to be a case of six of one or half a dozen of the other, with neither truly better than the other. They were both simply lesser than the rest of the Campagnolo range.

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