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Old 09-23-11, 04:27 AM   #1
PDXaero
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All assistance needed, BROKEN GRAIL BIKE

I did something really stupid and clumsy today and feel lower than a bow-legged caterpillar because of it.

I ran my deraillieur into the spokes on a hillclimb while riding my Carbon Pro.
(switched the 8s 130mm wheels for the 7s 126mm wheels and didnt set the limiter for 7)
damage sustained is limited to a jockey wheel and the BROKEN DERAILLIEUR HANGER.


I know I have put myself in a bad place here, I have ruined my favorite bike, and possibly taken it out of commission for good.
So I am calling on all experts in early CF, filing aluminum, replacing dropouts, voodoo, ANYTHING to lend some advice on what to do.

I do have the broken piece to complete the DO if a new one must be fabbed, but thats still leaving a lot of guessing as to rebonding the chainstay.
There is also a great CF repair resource in Oregon, but this is not modern carbon, its from 1989 so I'm not sure what results may come.

Thanks in advance to the biggest family I have.
You all have been a great community for me to be in for years and many of you know I have been having a really bad summer, this one should be the biggest blow, hopefully it's all tailwinds from here.

Trying to keep the graphic stuff out of the way so I have given you fair warning.

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Old 09-23-11, 04:50 AM   #2
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Sorry to hear.....I'd be depressed myself. If thats one of the Vitus frames there is hope:

http://guywires.com/salestuff/vitusparts.htm
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Old 09-23-11, 05:08 AM   #3
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Nope, its one of the zodiac frames
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Old 09-23-11, 05:09 AM   #4
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Nope, its one of the zodiac frames
With the 'splash decals? Dam....sorry.
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Old 09-23-11, 05:24 AM   #5
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not many of these frames left out there.
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Old 09-23-11, 06:06 AM   #6
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Tsk. Bad Luck.

This is desperate, but maybe you could do something with a conversion to a solid axle and use a derailleur with an adapter claw - like this: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/RD8153a.jpg
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Old 09-23-11, 06:16 AM   #7
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OMG...that's a tragedy.

Maybe ftwelder will have a suggestion? If anyone can do alchemy I bet it's him.



Maybe if someone is good with a milling machine. remove the carnage, mill the dropout down some so you can attach a modern hangar slightly recessed as to not lose a lot of spacing??

Problem Solvers also makes a universal...maybe some joy here?

http://problemsolversbike.com/produc...illeur_hanger/

I would also think a good machinist could machine something out of steel to go between the QR nut and the dropout then swing underneath the dropout to put the hangar mount back in the proper position under the dropout.

Last edited by khatfull; 09-23-11 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 09-23-11, 06:19 AM   #8
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I don't see why the modern carbon people couldn't do it. I'm sure they could if anyone can.
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Old 09-23-11, 06:31 AM   #9
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A new dropout would be able to be rebonded into the stays, its just a matter of finding a dropout...


youshould be able to find a fix, i like the idea of milling into the dropout to make it work with a replaceable one, make it common, like a trek road or something that there is 10 million out there.
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Old 09-23-11, 06:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan View Post
I don't see why the modern carbon people couldn't do it. I'm sure they could if anyone can.
True dat...maybe these folks deserve a pic or two sent?

http://www.carbonframerepair.com/
http://www.kirkleebicycles.com/carbon-frame-repair/
http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/
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Old 09-23-11, 06:47 AM   #11
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Dropout itself looks like metal, and being in Portland you've got no shortage of really good frame builders who could most likely sculpt in a new hanger into the existing dropout with minimal paint loss on the dropout. I'd be a tad worried about the heat near the rear triangle if the stays are carbon, but again, a good frame builder, especially one with some carbon experience, should be able to coax the dropout out of the stays, braze on a new hanger, and have it nearly as good as new. Call around, send some emails with pictures to a few shops, see what they have to say.

edit: I'd add Anderson Custom Bicycles to your list, he's not local, but he does do a fair bit of frame repair on a wide range of bikes from what I've seen and would be a good source for at least an opinion on your options.
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Old 09-23-11, 06:48 AM   #12
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Get in touch with either Calfee or Crumpton!

They both repair carbon and do it VERY well!

Keep in mind, they are NOT CHEAP!!!!
But the best normally cost the best!

I have seen both co. work up close, it's WONDERFUL!

Good luck
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Old 09-23-11, 07:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
A couple of years ago somebody had a thread on repairing one piece Cannondales. He'd found an acceptable replacement hanger from a modern bike and hand ground the dropout to about half thickness to take the overlap and top shape of the hanger. Looked acceptable.
Exactly what I was getting at.

PDX While it may take some time and $$$ I don't think you're out of options for sure.

Good luck man!
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Old 09-23-11, 07:37 AM   #14
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OK, I guess I am missing it, but why not just use a claw derailleur hanger? OK, they aren't the prettiest thing in the world, but one would get you back on the road for minimal cost, while you ponder better options. Probably would need a longer axle, so the claw has something to hang onto.

While many of us (me included) don't care for the claw style derailleur hangers, functionally, they work fine. Once it is mounted up, I think it would look fine.

Last edited by wrk101; 09-23-11 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 09-23-11, 07:47 AM   #15
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Cheer up, man. This would make an awesome fixie.

(hey look, someone was gonna say it eventually)
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Old 09-23-11, 07:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
OK, I guess I am missing it, but why not just use a claw derailleur hanger? OK, they aren't the prettiest thing in the world, but one would get you back on the road for minimal cost, while you ponder better options. Probably would need a longer axle, so the claw has something to hang onto.

While many of us (me included) don't care for the claw style derailleur hangers, functionally, they work fine. Once it is mounted up, I think it would look fine.
That was my first thought too.
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Old 09-23-11, 07:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
A couple of years ago somebody had a thread on repairing one piece Cannondales. He'd found an acceptable replacement hanger from a modern bike and hand ground the dropout to about half thickness to take the overlap and top shape of the hanger. Looked acceptable.
I did that myself to an old Cannondale. Still going strong. Some careful tig welding needed.
Although in my case I had more surface area to work with due to the large size of the dropouts back then. Here, if you cut off the rest of the hanger, and get a matching piece from a donor frame, you won't have a ton of contact. Maybe if you make a straight cut about 1/4 " below the qr, parallel to the chainstay, well beveled and find a semi-matching hanger... who knows ? Might be worth a try with nothing to really lose.
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Last edited by Homebrew01; 09-23-11 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 09-23-11, 08:02 AM   #18
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Man, what a bummer. My condolences! I think you have been offered three good options, which I would implement in the following order:

1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
... why not just use a claw derailleur hanger? OK, they aren't the prettiest thing in the world, but one would get you back on the road for minimal cost, while you ponder better options. Probably would need a longer axle, so the claw has something to hang onto.
I don't think you'd need a longer axle, but a longer/stronger QR might be in order.


2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
A couple of years ago somebody had a thread on repairing one piece Cannondales. He'd found an acceptable replacement hanger from a modern bike and hand ground the dropout to about half thickness to take the overlap and top shape of the hanger. Looked acceptable.
You have the broken piece of your hanger, right? Try to match that shape with the replacement; file the replacement and the remains of the dropout until it all fits right, drill and tap mounting holes, apply JBWeld and bolts, and clean it all up with a file and sandpaper when you're done. Shouldn't be hard to do, and should look pretty good when done.


3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr59 View Post
Get in touch with either Calfee or Crumpton!

They both repair carbon and do it VERY well!

Keep in mind, they are NOT CHEAP!!!!
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Old 09-23-11, 08:09 AM   #19
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I'm usually for diy options and if this were a run of the mill trek or cannondale I would second the motion to fab something yourself but this thing is a work of art and i'd reach deep in my pocket and do it right if I were you.
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Old 09-23-11, 09:52 AM   #20
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Ahhh, man, what a bummer! Sorry, and good luck with the repair.
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Old 09-23-11, 09:55 AM   #21
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emailed ruckus components in PDX, they have done the same repair to an early colnago so I'm hoping high.
CNC a new hanger based on the old one, remove old one, rebond frame.
waiting to hear back if they have time/will
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Old 09-23-11, 10:27 AM   #22
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Looks like the DO bolts to the seat stay, so you'd only have to unbond/rebond the chainstay. Can't help you there but, if you can get it removed, I can CNC a new drop out for you. I'm only a few hours north of you. Option B) cut off the remaining half of the hanger, weld, blend, drill, tap a new tab for the derailleur. Option A would be a nicer fix but more time consuming/costly. Option B would be quicker/cheaper and you wouldn't have to remove the drop out. But, probably not as clean of a fix and I'm not sure I like the idea of so much heat near that carbon.
-Andy

edit- Option C) 'combo' - remove/repair the drop out off the bike. Still have to unbond/rebond but, no chance of heat damage to the frame and saves quite a bit of machine work.

Last edited by Andycapp; 09-23-11 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 09-23-11, 10:38 AM   #23
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Btw, you mention you swapped the 130mm 8-sp wheel with a 126mm 7-sp wheel. Do you regularly alternate between these wheels on this bike? Irrespective of the derailleur hanger issue, I'd assume that's not an advisable practice on a vintage CF frame.

I think I've said this before, but your Carbon Pro is one of my favorite bikes on this forum. Such attention to detail, and I'm a sucker for vintage Mavic parts. I'm still optimistic the frame is salvageable.
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Old 09-23-11, 11:00 AM   #24
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Aargh, major bummer. Fingers crossed for a repair that turns out better than expected, for less than you fear.
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Old 09-23-11, 11:03 AM   #25
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I think my fix could be done without heat damage to the carbon. You could do it in steps, with some time for cooling, to avoid too much heat buildup. Then the original bonds to the stays can be left as-is without adding the possible risk of further damage. Shoot some paint on there and you're done. A low visibility area so many won't even notice.
If my idea doesn't work for some reason, you're not really any worse off than you are now, and can try some of the other solutions.
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Last edited by Homebrew01; 09-23-11 at 11:08 AM.
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