Raleigh Portage build, first ride, 650b first impressions
#51
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I would try these:
https://www.rivbike.com/Pacenti-Pari-Moto-p/t200.htm
White Hetre's will quickly look like cr*p and the red will clash with the bar tape. I like the skin wall look on this bike. It matches closely w/ the painted on gold accents.
https://www.rivbike.com/Pacenti-Pari-Moto-p/t200.htm
White Hetre's will quickly look like cr*p and the red will clash with the bar tape. I like the skin wall look on this bike. It matches closely w/ the painted on gold accents.
#52
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I didn't think you would take me seriously about the Santa Claus comment. Get the tires that you want... that's a way bigger deal than bar tape. Last night I was going to make a C&V fashion police badge but it took to long and I lost interest.
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#53
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#54
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Really nice bike, holiday, and a description which has reeled me in to the 650B thing.
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Last edited by seedsbelize; 09-28-11 at 12:57 PM.
#56
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Been lurking for a couple months now but just wanted to let you know this is exactly the kind of bike I've been tinkering with in my head, I just didn't know how to put it together. Thank you for posting it! Looks like serious fun
#57
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I don't follow. Higher rolling resistance of what?
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#58
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Displacement, welcome, and thank you for unlurking. Zaphod Beeblebrox has built up a great bike with 650b wheels and an old Schwinn World Voyageur. If you haven't seen the thread, look for it with the search function.
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#59
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i can say one thing, I don't know how much the difference in wheel size makes the difference, but to really get the cushy feel of a higher volume tire I think you need to go 36 mm at an absolute minimum. If you could fit a 700x36 or preferably a little bigger on a bike made for 27" wheels i'd think you'd have a fairly similar feel. My Lotus is a 27" wheeled touring bike with canti's, but the biggest I can fit in a 700c while having room for fenders is a actual 32, and that just doesnt approach the same feel as these 38's.
Anybody want to buy a 64cm Kog P/R (almost complete bike)? PM me for info and pics.
SP
Bend, OR
#61
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No, the larger wheel accelerates faster. Rolling resistance is the deflection of the tire at the front edge of the tire patch. That angle is more severe with the smaller wheel.
Another way to think about it is that both wheels require the same amount of energy to turn one revolution, but the smaller wheel requires more revolutions to go a given distance.
Another way to think about it is that both wheels require the same amount of energy to turn one revolution, but the smaller wheel requires more revolutions to go a given distance.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#62
No one cares
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thanks again for the compliments guys.
If I go Hetre's I'd probably get the black ones and splurge for the black leather bar tape too, which is my favorite bar material by far.
If I go Hetre's I'd probably get the black ones and splurge for the black leather bar tape too, which is my favorite bar material by far.
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I was thinking that that caramel colored Brooks tape would look killer with your gear bag and against the black, but I don't think it would work with the dark seat. Still, brown + black = the business
#65
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well lucky for me this aint design by committee
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#66
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#68
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true that, lucky I have thick skin.
VO Hunters Pass rack with integrated decaleur will be here Friday. Woot!
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#69
Schwinnasaur
No, the larger wheel accelerates faster. Rolling resistance is the deflection of the tire at the front edge of the tire patch. That angle is more severe with the smaller wheel.
Another way to think about it is that both wheels require the same amount of energy to turn one revolution, but the smaller wheel requires more revolutions to go a given distance.
Another way to think about it is that both wheels require the same amount of energy to turn one revolution, but the smaller wheel requires more revolutions to go a given distance.
Just my 2 cents.
#70
Senior Member
This has not been my experience. Smaller wheels give better acceleration. The drawback to smaller tires is that they are more affected by bumps and pot holes requiring wider tires at less inflation to act as suspension or to have shocks that add to weight and complexity. My Moulton rides smoother than my Raleigh Sports but I think there is some loss in shock system. The rolling resistance you mention above, the angle changes little between 20" and 27".
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
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Tom, you are right about rolling resistance (even if difference is not huge), but rolling resistance has everything to do with steady state rolling, and not much with acceleration - looks like rotational mass is more important in that case.
Now, here is interesting side effect of stating that 650b wheels have smaller rotational mass compared to 27" - that means that they have less of 'rotational inertia' at any given speed, and therefore bike is inherently a bit less stable (not as strong 'gyroscopic' effect), requiring more rider's input to stay upright. Has anybody experienced that?
Now, here is interesting side effect of stating that 650b wheels have smaller rotational mass compared to 27" - that means that they have less of 'rotational inertia' at any given speed, and therefore bike is inherently a bit less stable (not as strong 'gyroscopic' effect), requiring more rider's input to stay upright. Has anybody experienced that?
#72
Senior Member
Tom, you are right about rolling resistance (even if difference is not huge), but rolling resistance has everything to do with steady state rolling, and not much with acceleration - looks like rotational mass is more important in that case.
Now, here is interesting side effect of stating that 650b wheels have smaller rotational mass compared to 27" - that means that they have less of 'rotational inertia' at any given speed, and therefore bike is inherently a bit less stable (not as strong 'gyroscopic' effect), requiring more rider's input to stay upright. Has anybody experienced that?
Now, here is interesting side effect of stating that 650b wheels have smaller rotational mass compared to 27" - that means that they have less of 'rotational inertia' at any given speed, and therefore bike is inherently a bit less stable (not as strong 'gyroscopic' effect), requiring more rider's input to stay upright. Has anybody experienced that?
#73
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But then, there should be no difference in acceleration as well... you can not have one thing without another, since both relate to rotational mass.
We are collecting some very contradictory information here
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Agree with that completely.
But I fail to see how that explains difference in acceleration between bikes with 650b and 27" wheels.
If rotational mass of the wheels is about the same, and their outside diameter is also about the same, they should accelerate in a similar way.
Here is an interesting read on the subject: https://www.tomsarazac.com/tom/opinions/wheelsize.html
My personal opinion is that once there is wider/heavier tire installed on 650b wheel, it has about same acceleration properties as 27"/700 wheel, and behavior differs only because of wider tire (more plush, compliant ride with a tad higher rolling resistance, and tire would behave much better when taken to moderate off-road situations, like dirt path or gravel road.). But I have to admit that I have sold my 650b bike 2 years ago, and it was not really comparable to my road bikes, so I may be wrong on the subject.
But I fail to see how that explains difference in acceleration between bikes with 650b and 27" wheels.
If rotational mass of the wheels is about the same, and their outside diameter is also about the same, they should accelerate in a similar way.
Here is an interesting read on the subject: https://www.tomsarazac.com/tom/opinions/wheelsize.html
My personal opinion is that once there is wider/heavier tire installed on 650b wheel, it has about same acceleration properties as 27"/700 wheel, and behavior differs only because of wider tire (more plush, compliant ride with a tad higher rolling resistance, and tire would behave much better when taken to moderate off-road situations, like dirt path or gravel road.). But I have to admit that I have sold my 650b bike 2 years ago, and it was not really comparable to my road bikes, so I may be wrong on the subject.