Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-28-11, 04:17 PM   #1
jammmers
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Need help identifying high-end raleigh bike (probably late 1960s)

I recently purchased a raleigh roadbike and am having a little trouble identifying its make and manufacturing year. From what I've been able to collect, I believe it is an early Raleigh professional, but I could be wrong. I've posted some pictures below.

The bike has a campagnolo record (170) crankset, campy brakes and campy brazed on shifters. Its got a 3ttt record stem and GB handlebars and campy record hubs. However, the headset is Dura Ace along with the derailleurs.

I think I've identified the lugs as Carlton Capella lugs and their website (http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/lugwork-p.htm) says they where used between 1958 and 1966. The serial number on the BB is A7995, which according to Sheldon Brown (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...ting.html#1967) means it was manufactured in 1966.

However, after looking at the 1967 catalogue on his website, the lug-work doesnt match the "raleigh carlton" bike. Nor was that bike outfitted with campy components.

Any thoughts? (From the pics, you will see that the bike has had an after-market paint job)

Were braze-on shifters even used that far back?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0016_1.jpg (40.8 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0017_1.jpg (37.0 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0018_1.jpg (48.2 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0019_1.jpg (40.3 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0020_1.jpg (44.8 KB, 85 views)
jammmers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-11, 05:25 PM   #2
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'm guessing it is a '73 Competition with some work and different parts. I believe those lugs were only used by Raleigh in '73. Sloping fork crown was used on the Pro and the Competition. Top tube cable guides look Competition. Braze-on levers were added unless its some model of Carlton rebadged as a Raleigh. But all the parts are not Competition. The RAleigh headbadge prior to 1970 was an oval, not the cutout Heron.
dbakl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-11, 06:05 PM   #3
gmt13
Half way there
 
gmt13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: 69 Hercules, 73 Raleigh Sports, 74 Raliegh Competition, 78 Nishiki Professional, 79 Nishiki International, 83 Colnago Super, 83 Viner Junior
Posts: 1,107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looks like my '74 Competition, especially with the sloping crown. What dropouts does it have? Mine has Huret. Braze on shifters were stock. Also, my SN is "A####" as well. Equipment was certainly upgraded.
gmt13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-11, 10:30 PM   #4
jammmers
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The dropouts are Huret as well, so is the downtube/bb cable guide is also Huret. I guess that answers it - 1973/74 raleigh comp. with some upgraded parts. Thanks!
jammmers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-11, 10:41 PM   #5
Roll-Monroe-Co
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
A wild Frejus appears!
Roll-Monroe-Co is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-11, 11:41 PM   #6
zazenzach
Senior Member
 
zazenzach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
forks bent
zazenzach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 01:49 AM   #7
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,220
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1633 Post(s)
I have a Competition from that approximate period..

and the lugs and fork crown are similar. I'll try to post some
pictures soon, but have non right now.

+1 on it being a Competition, though.
3alarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 05:08 AM   #8
AZORCH
Senior Member
 
AZORCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Bikes: 1946 Hobbs of Barbican | 1966 Paramount P-13 | 1971 Raleigh International | 1982 Gazelle AA Champion Mondial Special | 1980s Freschi Supreme Super Cromo | 1985 Katakura Silk | 1989 Waterford PDG Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet
Posts: 2,799
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
I believe those lugs were only used by Raleigh in '73.
Correct; 1973 was the only year the Capella lugs were used by Raleigh.
AZORCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 09:14 AM   #9
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmt13 View Post
Braze on shifters were stock.
Cool, never saw that on a Raleigh, though pretty common on Carltons. I just built a Competition frame into a single speed for my son and shipped it to him at college, it was a nice riding bike!
dbakl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 09:24 AM   #10
lostarchitect 
incazzare.
 
lostarchitect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: See sig
Posts: 6,326
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammmers View Post
Were braze-on shifters even used that far back?
I dunno about Raleigh, but my JRJ is a '64 and has braze on shifters, so, yes.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
lostarchitect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 11:02 AM   #11
jammmers
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So I've taken a look through the Raleigh 1973 catalogue on Sheldon's page. Any idea what the BB and headset make would have been for the 1973 Raleigh competition?

I was thinking that the BB might be TA considering the crank is TA. But what about the headset??
jammmers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 12:16 PM   #12
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
BB would have been TA, headset was a generic thing maybe called Brampton?
dbakl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 12:17 PM   #13
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I dunno about Raleigh, but my JRJ is a '64 and has braze on shifters, so, yes.
I'm working on a late 50s Carlton that has the shifter bosses brazed on.
dbakl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 12:33 PM   #14
photogravity 
Hopelessly addicted...
 
photogravity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Maryland
Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte
Posts: 5,008
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammmers View Post
I recently purchased a raleigh roadbike and am having a little trouble identifying its make and manufacturing year. From what I've been able to collect, I believe it is an early Raleigh professional, but I could be wrong. I've posted some pictures below.

The bike has a campagnolo record (170) crankset, campy brakes and campy brazed on shifters. Its got a 3ttt record stem and GB handlebars and campy record hubs. However, the headset is Dura Ace along with the derailleurs.

I think I've identified the lugs as Carlton Capella lugs and their website (http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/lugwork-p.htm) says they where used between 1958 and 1966. The serial number on the BB is A7995, which according to Sheldon Brown (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...ting.html#1967) means it was manufactured in 1966.

However, after looking at the 1967 catalogue on his website, the lug-work doesnt match the "raleigh carlton" bike. Nor was that bike outfitted with campy components.

Any thoughts? (From the pics, you will see that the bike has had an after-market paint job)

Were braze-on shifters even used that far back?
She's quite nice, whatever she is. Does the serial match with Raleigh bikes of that period? I have a feeling it is like others here have posited: It's either a) the braze-ons were added or b) it's a Carlton badged as a Raleigh. Given it's been repainted, my guess is the former as opposed to the latter, but this is nothing more than wild supposition on my part.
__________________
--
Ridding the world of derailleurs, one bicycle at a time.

46 Hercules Roadster, 49 Hercules Kestrel, 50 Norman Rapide, 51 Hercules Lion, 52 Hercules Windsor, 56 Hercules Royal Prince, 61 Fiorelli Tandem, 67 Carlton Super Race (IGH), 70 Schwinn Collegiate (IGH), 71 Hercules, 71 STF Hercules, 72 Peugeot PX-8 (IGH), 76 Raleigh Sports, 77 STF Raleigh Sports, 77 Jack Taylor Tandem, Early-80's Mike Appel SC, 84 Davidson Tandem, Late-80's Alpine, 10 Bilenky "BQ" Signature Tandem
photogravity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 01:07 PM   #15
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,746
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazenzach View Post
forks bent
Seeing how your post has no indication of humor in it, I would like to hear your justifications for this comment; particularly as it could be misleading to the OP.

Furthermore, the fork does not appear bent at all.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 03:14 PM   #16
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,822
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
It looks like a '73 Raleigh Competition, but it should not have shifter braze-ons or side pull brakes.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 03:15 PM   #17
sauze
Senior Member
 
sauze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Bikes:
Posts: 935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Beautiful bike ... any more photos ?
sauze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-11, 04:10 AM   #18
mkeller234
Rustbelt Rider
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban
Posts: 8,304
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I agree with those who say a 73 Raleigh competition that was upgraded at some point in it's life.

I noticed the "X" and "O" marks on the bottom bracket. My 73 Raleigh has the same marks. I wonder what they mean... "Hugs and Kisses" was suggested by colonelJLoyd. I'll take a picture of the headset on my 73 Raleigh Gran Sport, it's just some generic headset as far as I can tell.

__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-11, 09:46 AM   #19
jammmers
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by photogravity View Post
Does the serial match with Raleigh bikes of that period?
The serial number is A7995, which according to Sheldon, seems to suggest it is a 1966 bike. However, the evidence provided above about the Capella lugs and slopping crown seem to suggest something a little newer.
jammmers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-11, 09:47 AM   #20
jammmers
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauze View Post
Beautiful bike ... any more photos ?
Due to the repaint, there's nothing much better to show than the pics above. Probably going to repaint it back to the 1973/4 colours this winter when I repaint a couple others. I'll post pics then.
jammmers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:58 PM.