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  1. #1
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Shimano 8 Speed Indexing: Will This Work?

    I'm curious if this will index. I'm going to install the Shimano 8sp bar end shifters (thanks, Brock!) regardless because if it doesn't index to my satisfaction I'll just use the friction setting. But here's what I have.

    • Shimano 8sp bar end shifters
    • Shimano 8sp HG cassette
    • Shimano 130mm freehub
    • Shimano RD-MT60 long cage deraileur (ca. 1988; meant to index with 6sp shifters)
    I suppose at the heart of the matter is this: Is the design of the MT60 similar enough to a modern 8sp compatible RD that the cable pull from the 8sp shifters will place it in the right spot over each cog?

    The spacing on a 6sp freewheel is something like 5.5mm and is 4.8mm on an 8sp, but all that is related to the pull of the shifter itself, correct?



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  2. #2
    Wookie Jesus inspires me. Puget Pounder's Avatar
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    It'll work. If you find things are slightly off, you can replace the jockeys with more modern ones.

  3. #3
    Senior Member tugrul's Avatar
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    Other than the Dura Ace exception, I've never seen a reference to an indexed Shimano rear derailleur with a different actuation ratio.

    So it should work.
    Looking for Quick release for a BR-6208 Cotter pin press

  4. #4
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Thanks. I have some of these jockey wheels just hanging around should I need replacements. How do modern jockey wheels differ?
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  5. #5
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    I agree, that should work. Every Shimano tech doc I've looked at with relation to indexing setup says to adjust so that the second smallest cog is the silky smoothest. I find that with older components who's pivots and such may be a little worn that getting the best location in the center-most cog spreads any indexing error over a smaller number of cogs...making it more precise throughout the range. Adjusting to the second smallest really magnifies any error or slop by the time you get to the biggest cog.

  6. #6
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    So, install shifters, connect cables, set RD limits, then shift to 4th smallest cog and fine tune the cable so that the RD is perfectly centered on that cog?

    Thanks, dudes! This is helpful.
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  7. #7
    Wookie Jesus inspires me. Puget Pounder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Thanks. I have some of these jockey wheels just hanging around should I need replacements. How do modern jockey wheels differ?
    They're jsut thinner. I've run 7s dr on 9s cassette without changing anything before, but I've heard of some people having to change the jockeys because they felt that their shifting was a little sluggish.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    10-4. I'm going to attempt it with the current SRAM 8sp chain and original jockey wheels.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    You can try, but I don't think it will work properly. It may work for some cogs, but even if fine-tuned around the middle cog, indexing may not be precise at the outer cogs. As tugrul said, the actuation ratio is probably different between that Deore and more modern RDs designed for 8-speed spacing.

    As for the jockey wheels, that's not what's going to make or break whether it works. Most Shimano RDs made from the mid-80s onward have a "centeron" guide pulley which has some lateral free play, allowing it to sense chain tension and "auto-center" to a cog to compensate for imprecise index (or friction) shifting. They introduced this feature before they introduced indexing, it was one of the innovations that led up to it. Your Deore should have it (even the 1st gen XT in 1983 had it), and something with the word "centeron" should be embossed on the guide pulley.

    If it doesn't work, shoot me a PM-- I have an 8-speed Deore LX long cage RD that I could trade ya.
    Last edited by southpawboston; 09-29-11 at 08:50 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Thanks, Anton. If it doesn't work I'll probably just use the friction setting. The drivetrain is original and if I change one thing I'll feel justified in switching the crank to a wide range double then who knows what else. I tinker too much. Frankly, it shifts like a champ with Silver bar ends or the stag's head XT thumbshifters I'm using now so this is certainly a solution looking for a problem.
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  11. #11
    Wookie Jesus inspires me. Puget Pounder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Thanks, Anton. If it doesn't work I'll probably just use the friction setting. The drivetrain is original and if I change one thing I'll feel justified in switching the crank to a wide range double then who knows what else. I tinker too much. Frankly, it shifts like a champ with Silver bar ends or the stag's head XT thumbshifters I'm using now so this is certainly a solution looking for a problem.
    I just noticed as I was leaving this morning that a Surly Crosscheck that I've been hanging onto for a while before I sell has 8s Sora Brifters with that same derailleur and a SRAM 8s chain. Works no different than anything hovering around that same placement in the shimano line-up.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Which derailleur, Puget Pounder?
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  13. #13
    Wookie Jesus inspires me. Puget Pounder's Avatar
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    The MT60 Deore that you proposed.

  14. #14
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    Justin, The only issue I've ever had was I darn near didn't have enough outward travel on the RD.

    Brad

  15. #15
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puget Pounder View Post
    The MT60 Deore that you proposed.
    Gotcha. I was confused because an XT RD was referenced in the passage you quoted. Thanks again!
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  16. #16
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
    Justin, The only issue I've ever had was I darn near didn't have enough outward travel on the RD.

    Brad
    Good to know. By outward travel, do you mean it wouldn't engage the smallest or the largest cog?
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  17. #17
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Good to know. By outward travel, do you mean it wouldn't engage the smallest or the largest cog?
    Smallest.

    Brad

  18. #18
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    How do modern jockey wheels differ?
    They dont. As long the upper pulley is an index compatible pulley your good to go. The ones in your link will NOT work
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  19. #19
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
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    Lloyd,

    Recently I swapped a 10 speed Campy Centaur (long cage) RD for a Deore of about mid 90s vintage on my '83 Paramount. I run 7 speed Sora STX brake/shifters on this bike. On the Campy I had some chatter and inprecise shifts in the middle that I could never fully adjust out. The new Deore shifts perfectly across the wide rage Suntour 7 speed Winner freewheel (13-32 teeth).

    I realize this is not a perfect comparison. But if you are picking up the Deore RD for a good price, I'd say it is worth a try. I'll bet it gets the job done and the RD will never know it was built around a 6 speed drivetrain.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Thanks, Bob. The RD is already installed; it's OE on the '88 Voyageur.
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  21. #21
    Holy Spokes it's Batsman! Glennfordx4's Avatar
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    Yeah it will work for you I mix and match Shimano stuff all the time and like others have stated some don't have enough swing to them depending on how many speeds the original RD was for, as for Suntour that's a whole different story lol.


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