Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-29-11, 11:52 AM   #1
RobbieTunes 
Idiot Pro Tempo
Thread Starter
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Bikes: at Pedal Room
Posts: 20,590
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
No more Site Mash or Jaxed Mash searches?

I used to look for Centurions on site mash, which combined CL and eBay, only showing the links.

I see CL has threatened to sue the site, for vastly broadening the market for CL.

I don't get it.
__________________

Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

Friends don't let friends drink and wrench.

1985 Raleigh Competition Racing USA Series-Coleman made me do it.....
1987 Bridgestone Radac - Aluminum (sadly, the frame is toast, RD hanger snapped off)
1988 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman Master - Steel
1989 Centurion Carbon-R - Carbon Fiber

http://www.pedalroom.com/members/RobbieTunes
RobbieTunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 11:56 AM   #2
mapleleafs-13 
Senior Member
 
mapleleafs-13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Bikes: Pinarello Veneto, Pinarello Montello, Bianchi Celeste
Posts: 1,763
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i think someone did a post on this on jaxed about a couple weeks ago or so, it's a bummer for sure, i used to have fun looking for random searches all over. now it can pretty much only find stuff on ebay, so i might as well go to the ebay site, no point going through them anymore...
mapleleafs-13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:16 PM   #3
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I see CL has threatened to sue the site, for vastly broadening the market for CL.

I don't get it.
CL was and is intended to be a local site and CL has various no compete clauses with kijiji and Ebay....site that allow group searching violate the no compete clauses of all the sites
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:33 PM   #4
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Posts: 15,196
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Ebay has a substantial ownership stake in Craigslist...and the easier Craigslist is to search, the less relevant Ebay (and its fees) becomes.

Jim - a third party site indexing CL doesn't violate a non-compete clause between two other parties. There might be an agreement between Ebay and CL that CL will take reasonable action to prevent indexing sites, but strictly speaking, it isn't a non-compete clause.

The interesting thing here, and this issue has come up in multiple ways in multiple other internet arenas, is that Google isn't doing anything dramatically different from an indexing site and, in fact, can be used to perform a non-local CL search.

Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 09-29-11 at 12:37 PM.
KonAaron Snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:35 PM   #5
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Ebay has a substantial ownership stake in Craigslist...and the easier Craigslist is to search, the less relevant Ebay (and its fees) becomes.
Its ~25% and they are NON-voting shares. Part of the aggreement of the sale of CL to Ebay was that niether were to compete with one another.
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:35 PM   #6
khatfull
FBoD Member at Large
 
khatfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Woodbury, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 6,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
CL was and is intended to be a local site and CL has various no compete clauses with kijiji and Ebay....site that allow group searching violate the no compete clauses of all the sites
That's a bunch of crap. Why then on my CL homepage http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ do I see links for "US Cities", "US States", "Canada", "CL Worldwide"? They're not local to me.
khatfull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:42 PM   #7
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Posts: 15,196
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Its ~25% and they are NON-voting shares. Part of the aggreement of the sale of CL to Ebay was that niether were to compete with one another.
A third party indexing site isn't competition, unless owned, or approved, by CL. I think what's happening is that CL is cognizant of the ownership relationship and is acting on Ebay's behalf. If there is a contractual agreement for CL to combat third party indexing, it wouldn't be a non-compete and I think is clearly in monopoly territory. There is a much more "lenient" attitude towards what are now called synergistic relationships and what used to be called violations of various anti-monopoly restrictions.

Whatever the mechanism, it would be a serious stretch to apply non-compete language to the actions of a third party acting without the support of one of the two parties in play.

Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 09-29-11 at 12:52 PM.
KonAaron Snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:43 PM   #8
Roger M
Senior Member
 
Roger M's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Snohomish, WA.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
FWIW, I use this once in awhile. It's only statewide though.

http://www.statewidelist.com/
Roger M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:53 PM   #9
Chris Chicago
Senior Member
 
Chris Chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: near north side
Bikes:
Posts: 1,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
the nice thing about jaxed was it seemed to store ads for a while so that you could see the price history of a listing. oh and pics of bikes even after they'd sold.

I remember there used to be a craigslist add on for firefox that would extract the pics so you wouldnt have to click on every listing ...the pics in the listing would show up next to the listing. then that stopped working.

oh wow, just found this which is kind of helpful http://www.allcraigspics.com
Chris Chicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:55 PM   #10
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
A third party indexing site isn't competition, unless owned, or approved, by CL. I think what's happening is that CL is cognizant of the ownership relationship and is acting on Ebay's behalf. If there is a contractual agreement for CL to combat third party indexing, it wouldn't be a non-compete and I think is clearly in monopoly territory. There is a much more "lenient" attitude towards what are now called synergistic relationships and what used to be called violations of various anti-monopoly restrictions.
The problen is that the sites allow you to choose the sites you want to search, you click the 'CL' or 'ebay' or 'kijiji' box and then click 'search' which intitates competition amongst the sites. There's a site out there that allows nationwide searching of CL but its for CL only, I'd venture a guess and say that if they added and 'ebay' option someoene would go after them.
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 12:57 PM   #11
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
That's a bunch of crap. Why then on my CL homepage http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ do I see links for "US Cities", "US States", "Canada", "CL Worldwide"? They're not local to me.
I dont know. Maybe its easier and less expensive for CL to have 1 site that allows access to all the cities versus a different site for each? What if you live inbetween citites or a visiting a relative or froend and want to scope out the classifieds before your trip?
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 01:05 PM   #12
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Posts: 15,196
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
The problen is that the sites allow you to choose the sites you want to search, you click the 'CL' or 'ebay' or 'kijiji' box and then click 'search' which intitates competition amongst the sites. There's a site out there that allows nationwide searching of CL but its for CL only, I'd venture a guess and say that if they added and 'ebay' option someoene would go after them.
I understand that, but the actions of an independant third party are outside the scope of a non-compete between two other parties. Additionally, another indexing site (searchallofcraigslist) which was CL only, was also shut down. If memory serves, there was another out there as well whose name escapes me. Additionally what you describe could also be said of Google.

The bottom line is that the ebay ownership stake in CL is a classic example of anti-consumer, monopolistic behavior, as can be clearly seen in this example. A third party indexing site does nothing but benefit CL, so the only reason to oppose it would be ebay's business interests. When you combine this with ebay's ownership stake in Paypal, which in turn has relationships and non-competes with similar services that don't challenge its bill rates, I think you have a problem. We're straying into political territory.
KonAaron Snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 01:06 PM   #13
Old Fat Guy
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 5,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
searchtempest.com and crazedlist.org (Firefox only)

You're welcome
Old Fat Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 01:31 PM   #14
Maddox
Ride heavy metal.
 
Maddox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Teenage Wasteland, USA
Bikes: '74 Raleigh LTD-3, '76 Motobecane Grand Jubile, '83 Fuji TSIII (customized commuter), '10 Mercier Kilo WT (fixed obsession), '83 Bianchi Alloro, '92 Bridgestone MB-1 (project), '83 Specialized Expedition (project), '79 Peugeot UO-8 (sold)
Posts: 1,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
+1 to searchtempest. I was just on it this morning. Always works for me.
Maddox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 01:32 PM   #15
khatfull
FBoD Member at Large
 
khatfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Woodbury, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 6,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddox View Post
+1 to searchtempest. I was just on it this morning. Always works for me.
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
khatfull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 03:32 PM   #16
RobbieTunes 
Idiot Pro Tempo
Thread Starter
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Bikes: at Pedal Room
Posts: 20,590
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Whatever the reason, it urinated me off this morning when I tried to search it.
That's my reality, and I'm sticking to it.

Thanks for the links, and the explanation. I couldn't see why something beneficial to CL would be banned.
I also sent emails to the "contact us" part of CL.

It's funny, the "bio" for the CL CEO describes him as totally the opposite of what CL is doing to jaxed mash.
__________________

Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

Friends don't let friends drink and wrench.

1985 Raleigh Competition Racing USA Series-Coleman made me do it.....
1987 Bridgestone Radac - Aluminum (sadly, the frame is toast, RD hanger snapped off)
1988 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman Master - Steel
1989 Centurion Carbon-R - Carbon Fiber

http://www.pedalroom.com/members/RobbieTunes
RobbieTunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 04:49 PM   #17
HercRider
Member
 
HercRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why not just use Google. Like:

Centurion Men's site:craigslist.org
or
Raleigh site:craigslist.org/bik (if you only wanna look under "bikes" section).
HercRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 07:58 PM   #18
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
What I don't understand is how someone can stop you from indexing. Basically that's Google's business, and they don't have a monopoly on it (yet). If you put it on the internet, what laws prevent anyone from indexing it? Someone should just do this out of Belarus or Iceland. Those other sites don't work at all the way Jaxed did, which is to give you the content based on keywords, and to hell with where you're located, or limiting how many results you can see.
Charles Wahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 08:26 PM   #19
RobbieTunes 
Idiot Pro Tempo
Thread Starter
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Bikes: at Pedal Room
Posts: 20,590
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
What I don't understand is how someone can stop you from indexing. Basically that's Google's business, and they don't have a monopoly on it (yet). If you put it on the internet, what laws prevent anyone from indexing it? Someone should just do this out of Belarus or Iceland. Those other sites don't work at all the way Jaxed did, which is to give you the content based on keywords, and to hell with where you're located, or limiting how many results you can see.
+
__________________

Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

Friends don't let friends drink and wrench.

1985 Raleigh Competition Racing USA Series-Coleman made me do it.....
1987 Bridgestone Radac - Aluminum (sadly, the frame is toast, RD hanger snapped off)
1988 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman Master - Steel
1989 Centurion Carbon-R - Carbon Fiber

http://www.pedalroom.com/members/RobbieTunes
RobbieTunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 09:03 PM   #20
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Posts: 15,196
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
What I don't understand is how someone can stop you from indexing. Basically that's Google's business, and they don't have a monopoly on it (yet). If you put it on the internet, what laws prevent anyone from indexing it? Someone should just do this out of Belarus or Iceland. Those other sites don't work at all the way Jaxed did, which is to give you the content based on keywords, and to hell with where you're located, or limiting how many results you can see.
That's what I was getting to earlier...when I mentioned that Google is essentially an indexing site and is often an issue in a myriad of internet related legal actions...

Example - when CL was getting heat for their escort ads, you could use Google to find an escort and get a list of responses. In principle, it wasn't that different from what CL did.

When the BT host clients get shut down, like Demonoid, the big issue that always comes into play that you can find a torrent with Google.

There is a differentiation made between hosting the index and linking to other sites...but it's a questionable differentiation. In the case of a Jaxed, the site with the content, in this case CL, claims intellectual property rights infringement if you post substantial amounts of their content. The fundamental issue isn't substantially different from the difference between a news article, or a review, plagiarizing a source and reporting on, or reviewing it.
KonAaron Snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-11, 09:13 PM   #21
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
.....
It's funny, the "bio" for the CL CEO describes him as totally the opposite of what CL is doing to jaxed mash.
Yeah, but it's not funny - it's vicious.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:48 AM.