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Old 09-29-11, 12:53 PM   #1
rollo
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Is it made in Italy?

Now that DEDA has moved production to Asia are there any manufacturers of bars/stems/posts NOT manufacturing in Aisa? After a broken crank arm I am very selective about where the gear I purchase is manufactured. Looking to replace bar/stem for next season and would prefer something "made in Italy"
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Old 09-29-11, 01:07 PM   #2
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Everything is pretty much going to Asia for manufacturing these days.
Unfortunately, it's the only way these days to keep the prices low enough and stay competitive for many brands. But with standard of living going up in those countries, things could change again to result in transfer of a lot of production to the so-called "third tier" Asian countries (Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia.....etc..)
Thing is, quality had leapt forward tremenduously for products coming from Asia as computer design and production automation had brought production tolerances/QC tighter than they ever had been, So made in US/Europe doesn't neccessarily mean much better quality than something made in China, Taiwan, Korea....etc...

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Old 09-29-11, 01:29 PM   #3
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Wasn't Campagnolo making a lot of their components in Romania?
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Old 09-29-11, 02:03 PM   #4
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Stella Azzura?
the company is from Milano, not sure where the components are sourced from.
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Old 09-29-11, 02:53 PM   #5
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Wasn't Campagnolo making a lot of their components in Romania?
Really? That's kind of sad. However, I did recently purchase a Campy Textran Light jacket at a discount house and it was indeed made in Romania.
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Old 09-29-11, 03:25 PM   #6
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If this was your crank arm, would you be looking for bars made in Asia?

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Old 09-29-11, 04:29 PM   #7
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If this was your crank arm, would you be looking for bars made in Asia?

Not familiar where some post 80's Campagnolo cranks have been produced, but I do know that they did them out of Italy eventually as evident with their lower priced cranks from the 90's (Centaur....etc?) Is that an Asian made Campy crank arm?
If it is, the final blame still rests on Campagnolo SpA...not Asians or who ever outside of Italy made them..., as they are ultimately responsible for all QA/QC for production of their products in Europe, Asia, or anywhere else. Anyway, this won't be the first time we saw Campy cranks cracking as their Italian made Super Record cranks were also known to do so at the spider/arm junctions once in a while......

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Old 09-29-11, 04:38 PM   #8
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how does a crank break like that? bubble in the metal causing a weak point?
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Old 09-29-11, 04:56 PM   #9
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how does a crank break like that? bubble in the metal causing a weak point?
Crack propagating stress riser cause by physical damage (a nick, crack or gash on the material caused by impact or flaw in the production process) or void in the casting/forging. It would still take a lot of force and some time to make it crack all the way like that. I suspect the damage was mostly invisible till it catastrophically broke on the user.

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Old 09-29-11, 07:48 PM   #10
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Wasn't Campagnolo making a lot of their components in Romania?
Some apparently - not necessarily "a lot."
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Old 09-29-11, 07:58 PM   #11
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My 11 speed Campy group came in boxes saying 'Made in Italy' on them. Hopefully they are referring to the contents.

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Old 09-29-11, 08:09 PM   #12
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I think all of the Campy stuff in the eleven speed groups (Athena, Chorus, Record, Super Record) is still made in Italy. The stuff in the current ten speed groups (Centaur, Veloce) is now made in Taiwan. I noticed this on the QBP site, each part they carry has a country of origin listed.

Mavic has had a lot of stuff made in Romania of late, but also China, and still some things in France.

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Old 09-29-11, 08:15 PM   #13
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I just checked a few more items on QBP, the 3T items I checked are made in Taiwan, the Miche seatpost is still made in Italy.
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Old 09-29-11, 09:30 PM   #14
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to muddy the waters a little more (or rather to give a clear view of murky water) this "country of origin" label is sometimes more open to manipulation than you might think (or want).
I read (and need to find the piece so I can give this as reference, not just hear-say) that if a "complex" manufactured item like a bike has the frame cut, welded, threaded, blasted and even painted in Taiwan but "finished" in Italy (and this can be just applying decals and installing the components) the entire bike can be (and is) labeled "Made in Italy"...and that label is applied on the Taiwanese-built frame, of course.
Where did those decals and components originate? Doesn't matter. Only that they were applied to that frame in (for this example) Italy.
So I have read...
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Old 09-29-11, 09:44 PM   #15
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to muddy the waters a little more (or rather to give a clear view of murky water) this "country of origin" label is sometimes more open to manipulation than you might think (or want).
I read (and need to find the piece so I can give this as reference, not just hear-say) that if a "complex" manufactured item like a bike has the frame cut, welded, threaded, blasted and even painted in Taiwan but "finished" in Italy (and this can be just applying decals and installing the components) the entire bike can be (and is) labeled "Made in Italy"...and that label is applied on the Taiwanese-built frame, of course.
Where did those decals and components originate? Doesn't matter. Only that they were applied to that frame in (for this example) Italy.
So I have read...
True....one major Italian bike company, at least, is notorious for this, and most folks know by now what's going on. The truth is, most of this involves carbon fiber frames, and Asia is where most carbon fiber frames come from, and where most of the lightest, most advanced frames are manufactured.
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Old 09-29-11, 10:11 PM   #16
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well, after plowing through searches for EU and Italian COOL regulations, all I can say is take it all (including my post above) with a grain of salt...there are differences in law between the US and the EU, and some regulations have not been harmonized (yet) between all EU countries for all products. Plus the law can be outright violated or merely circumvented in some countries (does this apply to Italy? you decide) and over time. It's a moving target...
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Old 09-29-11, 10:11 PM   #17
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Some Asian-manufactured goods are of very high quality. I notice just about all bikes and bike parts made in Taiwan are very good. In fact, Taiwan seems to be the best place to make high quality large-production bikes and bike things.

Times change. Taiwan bikes and bike things used to be crap. Before that, it was the Japanese stuff that wasn't very good, but they turned things around in the 70's, which turned our heads and made us say WOW.

I expect Korea to be the next powerhouse of a manufacturing country. Right now, they make some pretty good electronics and cars. Samsung is a highly respected brand among young American people.
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Old 09-30-11, 05:21 AM   #18
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to muddy the waters a little more (or rather to give a clear view of murky water) this "country of origin" label is sometimes more open to manipulation than you might think (or want).
I read (and need to find the piece so I can give this as reference, not just hear-say) that if a "complex" manufactured item like a bike has the frame cut, welded, threaded, blasted and even painted in Taiwan but "finished" in Italy (and this can be just applying decals and installing the components) the entire bike can be (and is) labeled "Made in Italy"...and that label is applied on the Taiwanese-built frame, of course.
Where did those decals and components originate? Doesn't matter. Only that they were applied to that frame in (for this example) Italy.
So I have read...
An example...last year this time, I was researching the carbon frame bike I wanted to celebrate my retirement from the Army and Army National Guard. One of the candidates was the Bianchi Infinito. The bike retailed for $3400 with 6700 Ultegra, or $4400 with Athena, with all other parts identical. I checked around, and new Ultegra and Athena groupsets were very close in price, with Athena typically $50-100 more. The price difference was apparently due to the Athena bikes being shipped to Italy for assembly, while the Ultegra bikes were assembled in Taiwan.
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Old 09-30-11, 08:26 AM   #19
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Yes, it has to do with the amount of value created. If some percentage (is it 60%?) of the value of the product is created in Italy, then it says made in Italy. I don't know who determines value, but I gather there are standard rules. You can't just claim that 60% of the value is from putting something in a crate, for example.
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Old 09-30-11, 09:05 AM   #20
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It's a touchy subject. And a messy one.

On one hand, there is no doubt that any of the countries mentioned above can produce outstanding quality products. None in my mind.

As another poster mentioned, it comes down to QA policies of the company. Antique Chinese furniture we see in museums was made to the stellar level it was because that level of quality and pride of workmanship was valued.

Also, the electronics example is a good one because it really gets muddy. If I had the money for an audiophile quality amplifier built locally with Made In Canada engraved on it, there is no doubt in my mind the componentry used is from all over the world. In fact the best of each component would indeed come from the expertise that is global and rightly so.

Where it gets touchy is when a company chooses to close manufacturing in one country and create unemployment for the sake of the bottom line. I understand that's not a very capitalist view (and I'm giving the match to start the flaming). There are a few issues for me - pride, authenticity, history - that are at play. Perhaps some would call those weaknesses or character flaws, but it's personal when a company closes a factory and devastates the primary, secondary, and tertiary industries of the very people who made the brand what it was. I'm not saying that is the case here, but it is elsewhere.

Okay, end of rant. Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Old 09-30-11, 09:19 AM   #21
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Hmm. My family is from Taiwan, and my dad and little sister live there. I've been many times and been given tours of some of the factories there. They take great pride in their history of steel-making, and consider themselves (correctly or otherwise) the world experts on the subject. I wish I could take a picture of all their faces after hearing that other people think it's unreliable junk! Some of you may have images of sweatshops with semi-slave labour pushing out products that they don't care about or understand, but my experience has been just the opposite. Plus, if you looks around many high end STEEL frames are being made in Taiwan, and believe me they know what they're making. I myself want to keep a bike authentic, whether it's French or Italian or Japanese when I'm restoring it, but it doesn't have much to do with quality control - much more with history and aesthetics.
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Old 09-30-11, 09:26 AM   #22
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Hmm. My family is from Taiwan, and my dad and little sister live there. I've been many times and been given tours of some of the factories there. They take great pride in their history of steel-making, and consider themselves (correctly or otherwise) the world experts on the subject. I wish I could take a picture of all their faces after hearing that other people think it's unreliable junk! Some of you may have images of sweatshops with semi-slave labour pushing out products that they don't care about or understand, but my experience has been just the opposite. Plus, if you looks around many high end STEEL frames are being made in Taiwan, and believe me they know what they're making. I myself want to keep a bike authentic, whether it's French or Italian or Japanese when I'm restoring it, but it doesn't have much to do with quality control - much more with history and aesthetics.
Like I said in an earlier post, on a mass produced scale anyway, the lightest, most advanced carbon fiber bicycle frames are made in Asia, for the most part Taiwan, and that's the leading edge of the bicycle industry. They're excellent at what they're doing, obviously.
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Old 09-30-11, 09:32 AM   #23
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They take great pride in their history of steel-making, and consider themselves (correctly or otherwise) the world experts on the subject. I wish I could take a picture of all their faces after hearing that other people think it's unreliable junk!
Again, no doubt in my mind. I remember reading an article in a bike magazine in the late 80s of a factory tour in Taiwan. They said they were fantastic!
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Old 09-30-11, 09:36 AM   #24
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the reason why it costs less to produce there is that they're more poor and have less rights.
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Old 09-30-11, 09:40 AM   #25
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Do you really trust Italian engineering?

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