Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-30-11, 03:33 PM   #1
rootboy 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,968
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
which edition of Sutherland's most useful ?

After stating in another thread I couldn't really justify the cost of a Sutherland's handbook, I figured I might be able to find an old copy somewhere for a reasonable amount. Any reviews of the handbook for a guy primarily interested in pre-85 data? Mostly interested in 70's stuff and earlier. Thanks.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 04:11 PM   #2
Glennfordx4 
Holy Spokes it's Batsman!
 
Glennfordx4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Jersey
Bikes: Too many Bicycles to list
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have the third and 5th ed and find the 3rd to be the best for vintage 70's & 80's bikes and gear especially Suntour stuff. It has break downs for hubs in it & the 5th doesn't.
Glennfordx4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 04:28 PM   #3
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,224
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1644 Post(s)
I have the fourth, sixth and seventh editions. For what you stated
as the stuff you're interested in, I think the fourth would be of most use.

I have never seen the third edition, but there used to be an online link
for the sixth edition to a downloadable PDF.......I don't know how Howard
Sutherland feels about that one way or the other, but it's the 7th that he
is now selling.

I've never managed to find a reasonably priced copy of the third or fifth
editions for sale online. They seem for some reason to command
rather exorbitant prices from used book dealers.

They are all pretty different in contents and layout....the sixth has
a huge section on spoke lengths that has been outmoded by online
spoke calculators.
3alarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 05:03 PM   #4
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Yeah, I found a pdf version online somewhere: search for that... free! I refer to it sometimes.

I guess the best version is the one that covers the time period you're working with.
dbakl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 07:16 PM   #5
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
I downloaded the 6th edition (1995), and since then I've acquired a print copy of the 4th (1985). Using Acrobat, I OCRed the 6th, so that I could do keyword searches, and bookmarked it fully. I also scanned, PDFed, OCRed and bookmarked the 4th; a better job because I controlled everything. I find that when I want to look something up, I invariably start with the 6th though -- its reach extends back to the 70s and 80s equipment that I'm most interested in, and I find it somewhat easier to use. I'd like to find a print copy, though the PDF is so darn easy to use that I probably wouldn't actually thumb through the book. I'd like to have a copy of the 5th (1990), too. N+1 is the right number of Sutherland'ses to have, mos' def'. I also pieced together a Barnett's, but I find it preachy and nowhere as easy to find relevant info as Sutherland's.

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 09-30-11 at 07:33 PM.
Charles Wahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 07:55 PM   #6
753proguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The Fifth (green binder) is awfully useful.

It's the one I keep right at my desk, and refer to daily.

I actually took the hub sections from the red one (I forget the version...) and added them to my Fifth.

Just tons of good stuff in the Fifth Edition.
753proguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 08:33 PM   #7
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Red = 4th.
Charles Wahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 08:54 PM   #8
753proguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Merci.
753proguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 09:08 PM   #9
Otis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,663
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
So can somebody who owns one check and see if there is a bearing size listed for TD Cross or TDC "Italia" headset. This would be an early 60's part. I can do trial & error, but If it is listed that would save me some time.
Otis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 11:51 PM   #10
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,224
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1644 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
I downloaded the 6th edition (1995), and since then I've acquired a print copy of the 4th (1985). Using Acrobat, I OCRed the 6th, so that I could do keyword searches, and bookmarked it fully. I also scanned, PDFed, OCRed and bookmarked the 4th; a better job because I controlled everything. I find that when I want to look something up, I invariably start with the 6th though -- its reach extends back to the 70s and 80s equipment that I'm most interested in, and I find it somewhat easier to use. I'd like to find a print copy, though the PDF is so darn easy to use that I probably wouldn't actually thumb through the book. I'd like to have a copy of the 5th (1990), too. N+1 is the right number of Sutherland'ses to have, mos' def'. I also pieced together a Barnett's, but I find it preachy and nowhere as easy to find relevant info as Sutherland's.
You can take your pdf on a CD to Kinko's andthey will print
and spiral bind it for about thirty bucks (I think that's what I paid.)

Well worth it to me, because I'm used to working from printed
media for both car and bike repair.
3alarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-11, 11:57 PM   #11
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,224
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1644 Post(s)
Here's a link to some overpriced used copies.......

http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/sub...Wbm&store=ZVAB
3alarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 03:02 AM   #12
Glennfordx4 
Holy Spokes it's Batsman!
 
Glennfordx4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Jersey
Bikes: Too many Bicycles to list
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I haven't been able to find the 6th ed on line that would down load, I searched ever since someone one here said you could but it never worked for me. The 3rd ed is almost twice as thick as the 5th and to me the 5th almost acts like a supplement to the 3rd ( I never saw the 4th ed though ) there is way more useful info for components and exploded views with part numbers that the 5th doesn't have plus the info that it has on freewheels that the 5th copy doesn't have is outstanding. It would be nice to get every copy that is printed as someone else stated but for what you want I still think the 3rd is the best choice IMHO. I use it more then the 5th myself and I have both right here at my desk.

I have been using my flat bed scanner to copy the 3rd ed to my computer but don't think I will for the 5th as I don't use it as much, though I still wouldn't throw it away lol.
Glennfordx4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 05:14 AM   #13
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.
Posts: 3,804
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
I own a Sutherlands 6th edition with all the updates. Very usefull information. I think a paid $75.00 for it, and it's in perfect conditon.
Michael Angelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 07:55 AM   #14
rootboy 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,968
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Thanks all. Greatly appreciated. Anyone who has various editions care to post the publication dates? 3rd and fourth editions? Seem to be having trouble finding that info online and note many sellers of older copies don't list the dates published. Thanks.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 08:07 AM   #15
schwinnderella
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I have second edition 1977 and the fourth 1985.
schwinnderella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 09:50 AM   #16
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Copyright notice in the front of 6th: 1974, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1995. I assume that those are the dates of 1st through 6th editions.

This thread has caused me to spend more money: I just found and ordered what I believe to be the 5th edition (1990-07) on Biblio.com. So I'll probably PDF that as well. I work on bikes right next to my bed/computer (hey, that's urban living, for better or worse), and it's easier for me than leafing through the book.

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 10-01-11 at 10:50 AM.
Charles Wahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 07:34 PM   #17
rootboy 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,968
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Thank you Charles. Now I'm a bit confused. Thought I read somewhere , online? that first edition was 1970, or that a subsequent edition went back to 1970. Maybe not. My apologies for inspiring you to buy another one. Curious, when you have them on PDF do you find things as easily as flipping through a hard copy?

Though I don't work on bikes all that much, I gotta get one. No doubt about it.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 08:03 PM   #18
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Thank you Charles. Now I'm a bit confused. Thought I read somewhere , online? that first edition was 1970, or that a subsequent edition went back to 1970.
I dunno about that; I end up kicking myself if I bother with version 1 of anything ;-)
Quote:
Curious, when you have them on PDF do you find things as easily as flipping through a hard copy?
I prefer the PDF to the print version, simply because it's more accessible. I just bookmark all the chapters, and the most useful subheadings, and I find that easier to pick up and use when I want some info.
Charles Wahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 08:12 PM   #19
sillygolem
No Money and No Sense
 
sillygolem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Anderson, MO
Bikes:
Posts: 706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"1974" copy reasonably cheap:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Book...6x%3D0%26y%3D0

I have had problems with booksellers on here putting down the first year of publication instead of the last, which is a headache when you're looking for a specific edition.
sillygolem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-11, 08:37 PM   #20
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,224
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1644 Post(s)
Just so you know ......

Quote:
Sutherland's Handbooks

Sutherland’s Handbook for Bicycle Mechanics 7th Edition with CD was $189.00 now $95.00 each $7.00 each within U.S.
$17.00 each to Canada
$30.00 each International orders

Sutherland’s 6th Edition CD $70.00 each $4.00 each within U.S.
$7.50 each to Canada
$10.00 each International

Combination price for 7th Edition Handbook and 6th Edition CD $165.00 $7.00 each within U.S.
$17.00 each to Canada
$30.00 each International orders
http://www.sutherlandsbicycle.com/SBSApricing.html

The 7th edition is on sale at about half price from Sutherland's.
3alarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-11, 09:53 AM   #21
Rabid Koala
Chrome Freak
 
Rabid Koala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Bikes: 1971 Chrome Paramount P-13, 1973 Gitane Tour de France, 1974 Raleigh Professional
Posts: 3,197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a fourth edition, purchased at a bike swap for $20
__________________
1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
1973 Paramount P-15 Opaque Blue
1973 Gitane Tour De France
1974 Raleigh Professional
1991 Waterford Paramount
Litespeed Tuscany
Holland Titanium
Rabid Koala is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:37 PM.