Harlan

So I've run 10 speed on Campy NR RD, Campy NR shfiters, and Simplex Retrofriction shifters without any rear shifting issues (quite amazing actually) but the stock chainrings (Stronglight crankset, Sugino Super Mighty crankset) did not work well at all with the narrow chain. The chain fell off on the outside more times than not. I've had the same bike run with 8 speed - the front and rear worked great.

How many of you have done this with success with what equipment, and have you used 9 speed? I'm thinking of outfitting another bike with a touring RD and wide range cassette (friction bar end shifters) without changing the stock TA crank on my Raleigh (poses several other problems). Your thoughts? I'd love to get to 9 speed but am wondering if it's too narrow.

Scooper

I put a Campy Comp Triple and wide range 10-s cassette on a 1972 Schwinn Super Sport. I'm using Ergo shifters.

Puget Pounder

Isn't that stuff already ~9 speed?

Scooper

Everything on is 10-speed. I think I misunderstood what the OP was asking.

LeicaLad 

I dunno. That looks like what he was asking. I'm also assuming that a key problem he was having was the thickness of the older chainrings with the narrow chain. Yes?

So, was that Schwinn originally a 120mm rear end or 126mm? You cold set it to ...?

And, just curious, what BB did you use for this, and what spindle length is needed for that crankset?

Very interesting setup. I've never gone beyond friction, so I am very curious.

Thanks.


(Edit: Hmm, 1972 SS? Had to be originally 120mm.)

RobbieTunes

This bike was 2x7 Shimano 600, changed to Ultegra 2x9. I changed everything, but didn't cold set the rear, as it's CF and flexed enough.




This was 2x8 Shimano 500EX and it's been upped to 3x9 Tiagra with new running gear.



This bike was 2x6 friction Suntour Sprint and upped to 2x9 105.



This bike was 2x7 Shimano 600 and upped to 2x10 105 with the Ultegra crankset.


I'm sure you see the pattern by now. I've used a 600 7-sp crankset up to 8, but I generally swap cranksets when the chain gets smaller. I pretty much change the whole setup. I have upped 600 7-sp to 8-sp w/STI's with no changes besides adding shifters, converting the freehub up.

A while back, I did upgrade a 2x6 600EX to 2x9, swapping out the wheels only for a 9-sp set w/a 9-sp cassette, adding a 9-sp chain. You really have to have a light touch on the shifters, and make sure your FD outer limit is set. It worked fine, though I had to really learn to be light on the shifter.

I've never needed to cold set, so I haven't yet.

20grit

I think the OP is having problems with the narrow chain on older, thicker chainrings. Everything shown thus far has a modern crank.

wrk101

+1 I think that is the question, and unfortunately, when I have installed 8/9/10 speed stuff, I have always gone with more modern cranksets as well.

Maybe a review of the STI thread will show someone staying with vintage crank.


Per Sheldon Brown: "Many, many cyclists are using 9- and 10-speed chains with older cranksets and having no problems whatever."

Based on Sheldon's comment, I think I will try a vintage crank next time.

Bianchigirll 

Personally I am trying to hold the line at 7spd. if something comes in the door with 8+ spd (usually Campi) I'll keep it that way but otherwise I only upgrade as far as ditching FW type rear hubs and using shimano 130 spaced cassette hubs to try and get a commonality in the fleet.

so far this seems to be working and with the KMC X8.93 chain and mixing the older cranks and 7spd cassettes

RobbieTunes

I've not had problems with narrow chains not fitting on the older chain rings, but some of them are definitely thicker, and this may be a problem with a 10-sp chain on a 6-sp crankset. I've only had a 10-sp chain drop between the rings on an older crankset one time. The outer limit screw on the FD must be set accurately, because the FD takes it a bit beyond the ring and then "settles" back on target. With a narrow chain, the movement beyond the outer ring can be enough to wing the chain.

Puget Pounder

I've mixed 600 ultegra 7s cranks with a 9s cluster and it worked pretty well. I've never gone through the 10s route though. What you propose is going to older than that.

Has anyone had experience turning a 1980s crank into a "modern" one by putting new rings on it? I've thought about buying some 110BCD rings for my Mighty Tour and making a modern set up. I know chainring distances differ between the rings, but I don't know how much that really matters.

southpawboston

One potential issue I see with this setup (which is an issue on my 8-speed setup on an early 80s frame) is that when in the smallest cog, the chain might slap repeatedly on the cable housing stop. Older frames with cable routing above the stay were not designed for cogs smaller than 13T.

Another issue that seems specific to TA and Stronglight cranks with really low Q-factors is that with wider-spread triangles (130 or 135mm), when in the smallest cog the chain might make contact with the tip of the crank arm. Switching to a longer BB usually negates this problem, but this also negates having a really low Q.

himespau 

I wonder if it matters whether you're friction shifting or going with indexed brifters. Friction probably wouldn't matter, the placement of the detents on the brifters might.

RFC

I've had no problem running older DA, 600 and 105 cranksets / chainrings with 9-speed setups.

MrEss

I'm happily running an Ultegra 6500 triple crankset as a 24/42 double with an 8-speed SRAM cassette on a 130mm spaced Shimano hub, shifted with Suntour ratcheting shifters, Cyclone Mk 2 RD, and Spirt top-normal FD.

Like Grant said, friction is like a dog that eats mud, glass, lightbulbs, caviar, steak... ;-)

gerryincwm

I've done a few miles on this set up and so far it's worked really well.
9/ 10 speed campag hub
9 speed cassette + chain
Shimano bar end shifters set to friction
TA 34/42 chainset

LeicaLad 

I'm quite grateful for this thread. I'm learning a lot.

I've spread my 1963 and 1959 frames to 126mm, feeling almost radical in going to 7-speed freewheels. My two 1971 frames are still at 120mm.

I'd not considered going wider, just 'cause I presumed it was not good for old vintage frames to spread so widely (stress on the original/ancient brazing of the dropouts).

This thread has really made me think about next steps. Thanks for the cool examples.

Andycapp

I'm currently running 2 x 8 tri-color brifters and derailleurs on a older 600 crank with 10 speed rings and a Campy 8 speed cassette and a Sram 8 speed chain. Shifts great. The chain rubs the outer ring if I cross from the small ring to small cog, but who does that? The rings were only used because they were bought cheap, fresh and had pick up pins (is that what they're called?). I'll go back to 7 or 8 speed rings if/when I come across some. Just thought I'd mention the old crank/new ring combo's working for me.

gerryincwm

mazdaspeed

8 speed is probably the narrowest chain I'd go with on vintage chainrings/cranks, otherwise I would change them to narrower, ramped, modern ones.

gerryincwm

I've got the set up in above pic and it works fine (9 speed)

cehowardGS

Dam, everything RobbieTunes got is EYE CANDY!!

mazdaspeed

Is that with indexed front shifting?

bikingshearer 

The old brazing shouldn't be a problem. If it was, Ye Olde Lugged Steele Frames would be coming apart at the joints in droves - and they simply aren't. The biggest risk is some crimping at the "pivot points" i.e., at the brake bridge and at the chain stay bridge (if you have one). It is a cosmetic issue (between nonexistent and minor in my experience), not a structural integrity issue.

I've had a 1967 Paramount, a 1978 Eisentraut, a 1982-ish Ron Cooper and a 1986 De Rosa spread to 130mm without problems. I also spent the $40 or $50 per to have it done by a mechanic I know and trust. Yes, Sheldon Brown has DIY instructions and many have followed them sucessfully, but I'd rather have someone with the experioence and the purpose-built tools do it.

gerryincwm

The front's on friction, not sure but don't think these ones do index ( on the front )