Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-12-11, 03:00 PM   #1
milky
lurks
Thread Starter
 
milky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Queensland, Australia
Bikes: 78' Peugeot UO8, DMR Rhythm, Giant STP1
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Identify that 70's Peugeot. Thread version 276453.34

Hello all,

I'm wondering what your collective thoughts are with regard to the following bike:
The images were taken by the seller not me.
Hyperlinks to save hot-linking high resolution images.

Reynolds sticker + Lug
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3...0720111186.jpg
Full bike shot
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3...0720111190.jpg
Lugs + Head badge
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2...0720111187.jpg
Seat Post + Seat Stay lugs
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3...0720111180.jpg
Filthy 49D + Serial number
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9...0720111192.jpg

Things that jump out at me are:

It's dirty!

Reynolds sticker - French 531? Is this just 3 tubes with hi-tensile stays and forks?

Decent looking French componentry (Larger diameter Simplex alloy seat post, Ideal saddle, Simplex shifters, Mafacs, Stronglight 49D, Alloy wheels (not sure if original), Possible evidence of tubulars at some stage due to the tyre scrapers attached to the brakes?

Lack of top tube cable braze ons.

Lack of chrome on rear stay.

Nervex lugs

Rear dropouts don't look stamped. When I zoom in enough I'm fairly confident "simplex" is written in the correct position. Mudguard eyelet noted.

My guess, French 77' PS 10.

Bike is located in Australia, in another city from me.
milky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 03:53 PM   #2
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Off the assumption its original.....

Lugs: Not 'fancy' Nervex lugs. I dont know what they are but they're not the typical lug.
Reynolds: 3 tubes. Horizontal '531' is 3 tube, diangonal '531' is full Reynolds.
Model: Who knows. Peugeot made different models for different markets, its most similar to the 'PR10'. 'PS' models have 3 main tubes Reynolds with a Reynolds fork.

'77 U.S. PR10 page 8: http://cyclespeugeot.com/PDFs/1977pdf.pdf
'78 French PS and PR 10 pages 3&4: http://cyclespeugeot.com/PDFs/1977pdf.pdf

'77 PR10:

__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 04:40 PM   #3
Chombi 
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Posts: 10,852
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
It's kinda painful to look at some of these period catalogue pics with weird looking saddle and seatpost setups (too far forward and kinda low for the frame size in this case) You have a feeling that the person who set up the bike for the photograph might not ride that much or at al....maybe it's the photographer's assistant who was too small for the bike??l..... The crank position for the pic could be better too...but at least they took it from the drive side!
Chombi

Last edited by Chombi; 10-12-11 at 04:44 PM.
Chombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 04:51 PM   #4
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,124
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
It's a PA10. It has 3 main tubes 531. I can't tell if they're straight gauge or butted.
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 05:43 PM   #5
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,628
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
It's a PA10. It has 3 main tubes 531. I can't tell if they're straight gauge or butted.
You must be thinking of a PR10. There's no Reynolds tubing at all in a PA10.

I think I've pointed that out to you at least once before. I guess you don't believe me.

PS10 is a new one on me, but I've never seen lugs like that on a PR10.

The fork is the high tension steel one used on everything below PX10 in the seventies (on US models). You'll find a seam running down the back.

Milky:

"Tyre scrapers" are not evidence of tubulars. They work just as well on clinchers.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 10-12-11 at 06:09 PM.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 06:38 PM   #6
753proguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
It's a PA10. It has 3 main tubes 531. I can't tell if they're straight gauge or butted.
Looks like 3 main tubes are butted 531. The decal looks to have said 'renforcés' as in 'butted.'

That sucker is beyond filthy-dirty, imo, fwiw. Scandalous to let a bike get that grotty.
753proguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 06:45 PM   #7
753proguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Those are '70 - '76 decals , I think?

The serial number *may* indicate a frame built in 1972, but I don't think it does, as my '75-ish Pug has a similar number (starts with a '2').

Mine has the holy Mafac levers, which apparently debuted in 1975, so between that and the decals, I'm saying mine is 1975 (uh, 1975-ish, you never know with a Peugeot, they were worse than Raleigh about stuff).
753proguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 07:30 PM   #8
milky
lurks
Thread Starter
 
milky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Queensland, Australia
Bikes: 78' Peugeot UO8, DMR Rhythm, Giant STP1
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks to all, lots of constructive input as usual.
This is what had me thinking PS 10.
French Reynolds sticker (or does this still mean it could be from anywhere?)
As well as this page apparently from the '77 French catalogue:
milky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-11, 09:03 PM   #9
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,124
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
You must be thinking of a PR10. There's no Reynolds tubing at all in a PA10.

I think I've pointed that out to you at least once before. I guess you don't believe me.
I believe you completely and categorically. The trouble is, I'm altogether too willing to believe my very leaky memory.
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-11, 12:19 AM   #10
neurocop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 2003 Lemond Zurich; 1987 Schwinn Tempo; 1968 PX10; 1978 PX10LE, Peugeot Course; A-D Vent Noir
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A couple of comments on the bike...the fork/crown doesn't have stickers and really doesn't look Reynolds...the Reynolds frame sticker is on the downtube, which indicates production after 1973...the rear stays aren't chromed...the lugs are "fancy" not plain Nervex, indicating a probable 1973 date for the bike (after 1974/5 PX10LE's had plain lugs), and the crank looks more like a SL 49D than a 93, so this is probably not a PX10.

As to the frame sticker...the tubes probably are lugged Reynolds DB rather than straight guage. You could easily distinguish the two types by tapping the frame tubes with a metal rod or coin...DB tubes will give a higher pitched ring at the center (thinner tube) and lower pitched ring at the ends (thicker tube there). Regarding how to test the rear stays, thats difficult, but if they are chromed it's almost certain they are Reynolds 531. If they are painted, it's harder to say. You could take everything off the frame and weigh it. "Full 531" frames will weigh about 1/2 pound less than 3 tube 531 frames with high-tensile stays, but that's nit picking.

This bike seems to be a higher end Peug, but not a PX10 for the purists, mainly because the fork and crank ain't right, and the rear stays are painted. It's worth fixing up, I think, but has been terribly neglected.
neurocop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-11, 06:11 AM   #11
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurocop View Post
A couple of comments on the bike...the fork/crown doesn't have stickers and really doesn't look Reynolds...the Reynolds frame sticker is on the downtube, which indicates production after 1973...the rear stays aren't chromed...the lugs are "fancy" not plain Nervex, indicating a probable 1973 date for the bike (after 1974/5 PX10LE's had plain lugs), and the crank looks more like a SL 49D than a 93, so this is probably not a PX10.

As to the frame sticker...the tubes probably are lugged Reynolds DB rather than straight guage. You could easily distinguish the two types by tapping the frame tubes with a metal rod or coin...DB tubes will give a higher pitched ring at the center (thinner tube) and lower pitched ring at the ends (thicker tube there). Regarding how to test the rear stays, thats difficult, but if they are chromed it's almost certain they are Reynolds 531. If they are painted, it's harder to say. You could take everything off the frame and weigh it. "Full 531" frames will weigh about 1/2 pound less than 3 tube 531 frames with high-tensile stays, but that's nit picking.

This bike seems to be a higher end Peug, but not a PX10 for the purists, mainly because the fork and crank ain't right, and the rear stays are painted. It's worth fixing up, I think, but has been terribly neglected.
I'm not sure where to start......

Forks: PX10 were avaialbe with nervex and non-Nervex crowned forks. There seems to be no pattern.

Fork decal: Without perusing all the pics on my HD I'd say the early PX10 from the 50's and early 60's didnt have them, late 60's through the mid 70's did, late 70's through 80's did but alot depended on decal scheme.

Chrome stays: By '78 or so they were being phased in Europe. Many Px's have painted stays.

Lugs: PX's were simultaneously available with both fancy and regulsr cut lugs. The OP's bike does NOT have fancy Nervex lugs.

DT Reynolds decal: The decal was moved to the DT for '74 but that location is primarily used to ID early 70's bikes. I haven't seen ST Reynods decals on later bikes but the placement for bikes after '74 isn't written in stone.

Date: NO way is that bike a '73....late 70's. The OP needs to check component date codes.

http://cyclespeugeot.com/SerialNumbers.html
http://cyclespeugeot.com/PX10ID.html
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-11, 01:49 AM   #12
neurocop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 2003 Lemond Zurich; 1987 Schwinn Tempo; 1968 PX10; 1978 PX10LE, Peugeot Course; A-D Vent Noir
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
I'm not sure where to start......

Forks: PX10 were avaialbe with nervex and non-Nervex crowned forks. There seems to be no pattern.

Fork decal: Without perusing all the pics on my HD I'd say the early PX10 from the 50's and early 60's didnt have them, late 60's through the mid 70's did, late 70's through 80's did but alot depended on decal scheme.

Chrome stays: By '78 or so they were being phased in Europe. Many Px's have painted stays.

Lugs: PX's were simultaneously available with both fancy and regulsr cut lugs. The OP's bike does NOT have fancy Nervex lugs.

DT Reynolds decal: The decal was moved to the DT for '74 but that location is primarily used to ID early 70's bikes. I haven't seen ST Reynods decals on later bikes but the placement for bikes after '74 isn't written in stone.

Date: NO way is that bike a '73....late 70's. The OP needs to check component date codes.

http://cyclespeugeot.com/SerialNumbers.html
http://cyclespeugeot.com/PX10ID.html
The OP's bike seems to have "ornate" scalloped (not plain) Nervex lugs, and these were phased out by Peugeot around 1974, so I'd have to say the bike is not a "late" 70's bike. It's definitely '74 or earlier. I'm going by the posted pics...

Re the fork crown, the Reynolds forks on PX-10's could have "fancy" or "plain" crowns, but in either case the forks crowns from the 70's typically had a chromed fillet that the OP's bike lacks (it indeed any fillet), which makes me question the PX-10 lineage.

Dating 70's Peug's is notoriously difficult, and SN's are of little help, but the phase out of fancy Nervex lugs around '74 IMHO is reliable indicator of bike DOB.
A major issue seems to be the nature of the frame tubes: "full" Reynolds versus 531 "main tubes" plus something else for the stays and fork blades.

PX10's should have Reynolds tubes and stays and forks. Ideally the bike in question should have the appropriate frame and fork stickers, but relying on stickers alone is not enough. It would be better to have ways to reliably determine the frame construction.

Fortunately there are ways to determine what a frame is made of. Frame tubes can be tapped with a piece of metal, such as a coin, to determine whether they are butted or not. Regarding the rear stays, you an measure the tube diameter with a micrometer or vernier caliper. The "non-531" stays are a couple of millimeters smaller than 531 stays. You can also strip the frame and weight it. A "full" 531 will weigh 200-300 grams less than a "main tubes only" 531 frame.
neurocop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-11, 03:24 AM   #13
VintageR
Yes.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Now really, this isn't a tough one.
It is a PR-10. For certain, period. Approx. vintage 1973/74. 3 tubes 531, gas pipe fork.
No signs of PX or PS ANYWHERE.
VintageR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-11, 03:28 AM   #14
VintageR
Yes.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
It's kinda painful to look at some of these period catalogue pics with weird looking saddle and seatpost setups (too far forward and kinda low for the frame size in this case) You have a feeling that the person who set up the bike for the photograph might not ride that much or at al....maybe it's the photographer's assistant who was too small for the bike??l..... The crank position for the pic could be better too...but at least they took it from the drive side!
Chombi
Lovely, isn't it !?
I especially like that biiig pie plate (aka "dork disc") on the PX-10 - verry funny, indeed ...
VintageR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-11, 04:47 AM   #15
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurocop View Post
The OP's bike seems to have "ornate" scalloped (not plain) Nervex lugs, and these were phased out by Peugeot around 1974, so I'd have to say the bike is not a "late" 70's bike. It's definitely '74 or earlier. I'm going by the posted pics...

Re the fork crown, the Reynolds forks on PX-10's could have "fancy" or "plain" crowns, but in either case the forks crowns from the 70's typically had a chromed fillet that the OP's bike lacks (it indeed any fillet), which makes me question the PX-10 lineage..
I'm nto sure what lugs are the OP's PX but they're not what one would expect of on PX's of the vintage your talking about. I've seen run of them mill PA10 style crowns on PX10's. I' dont how you could possibly say thats a '74 or earlier model.

Here's a '76 with the same lugs:.
.

__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-11, 11:00 PM   #16
neurocop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 2003 Lemond Zurich; 1987 Schwinn Tempo; 1968 PX10; 1978 PX10LE, Peugeot Course; A-D Vent Noir
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
I'm nto sure what lugs are the OP's PX but they're not what one would expect of on PX's of the vintage your talking about. I've seen run of them mill PA10 style crowns on PX10's. I' dont how you could possibly say thats a '74 or earlier model.

Here's a '76 with the same lugs:.
.

Yeah, those are the ornate Nervex lugs in your pic. Notice also the "non-ornate" Reynolds fork crown...which has the expected chrome fillet bar that I was referring to. The OP's fork crown is totally different, as I mentioned.

If your picture is of a '76 Peug, I stand corrected that the ornate lugs phased out after 1974, but I stand by everything else I said.
neurocop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-11, 07:36 AM   #17
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurocop View Post
Yeah, those are the ornate Nervex lugs in your pic. Notice also the "non-ornate" Reynolds fork crown...which has the expected chrome fillet bar that I was referring to. The OP's fork crown is totally different, as I mentioned.

If your picture is of a '76 Peug, I stand corrected that the ornate lugs phased out after 1974, but I stand by everything else I said.
The lugs pictured in post #15 are NOT Nervex.
__________________
WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-11, 07:30 PM   #18
neurocop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 2003 Lemond Zurich; 1987 Schwinn Tempo; 1968 PX10; 1978 PX10LE, Peugeot Course; A-D Vent Noir
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
The lugs pictured in post #15 are NOT Nervex.
They are not Nervex Pro lugs, but I thought they were from the Nervex Legere series (of which there were dozens of models, most of which had that long "spike." If not Nervex, who made them. They are quite nice.
neurocop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 03:21 PM   #19
Chris770099
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the bike is a Peugeot PR 10L. I have an identical one since new in 1975.. ridden less than 100 miles here in the UK.
Chris770099 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 04:05 PM   #20
eschlwc
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson
Posts: 4,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageR View Post
…Approx. vintage 1973/74...
the cycles peugeot page says '77-'78, right?



eschlwc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 04:16 PM   #21
eschlwc
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson
Posts: 4,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris770099 View Post
the bike is a Peugeot PR 10L. I have an identical one since new in 1975.. ridden less than 100 miles here in the UK.
that makes sense when looking at that front derailleur if original. there's a gap in the downtube decal dating on the cycles peugeot page which might put it at '76ish.
eschlwc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 09:17 PM   #22
Shp4man
Senior Member
 
Shp4man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Bikes: 1988 Peugeot PY-10P Frankenbike, 1994 Diamond Back Response Elite MTB. 1964 Schwinn Typhoon. 1977 Peugeot PRN10E, 2003 Performance M-201 MTB dirt rider. 1974 Bridgestone Sprinter, 2015 Scott Sub 10 Citybike.
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
It has the same decal set as my 1977 PRN10E, but the lugs are different and they only offered silver paint for that model according to what I've read. So '76 sounds about right. A European model maybe?
Shp4man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-14, 09:22 AM   #23
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,628
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
You need top tube cable clamps. It originally had three Simplex clamps.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:10 PM.