Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-15-11, 11:23 AM   #1
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
Thread Starter
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
So Sad: The Fate of an Ideale Saddle

As many on C&V know, I have a soft spot for collecting leather saddles. Brooks, Wrights, Felt, Middlemore, and Ideale are all in my collection. Many are mounted on bikes which are ridden. A few Brooks are limited edition models. Several saddles have been rescued from my town's "Stump Dump," which contains the scrap metal pile.


This week, while poking in the pile, where many treasures have been found in the past, I slid a battered metal cabinet off a--- stem shifter, turkey wing, steel rimmed, equipped Shogun. The bike was still wedged under a few other pieces of scrap, and could not be retrieved, but moving the cabinet, revealed an old leather saddle!

Looking a little closer I spotted the stamping in the rivets, and they read, "Ideale."




But the condition was so sad! The top had developed a scaling like I had never seen. It was reptilian in appearance.


To be continued....
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 11:33 AM   #2
bikemore 
Too many bikes
 
bikemore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston MA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Ah, it will bring $50 on ebay. Actually I think there is plain (not an alloy, etc) frame up right now. And I do have a NOS saddle with no frame.
bikemore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 11:37 AM   #3
gaucho777
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin
Posts: 5,609
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
(Edit: Never mind. I think I jumped the gun...)

Last edited by gaucho777; 11-15-11 at 11:57 AM.
gaucho777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 11:53 AM   #4
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
Thread Starter
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
The skirt was splayed a little. The logo faded with time.


There were even lichens growing on this poor, long forgotten treasure.




While I didn't spot any tears, rips, or separating rivets from leather, I doubted this saddle could ever be used again.


To be continued...
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 12:08 PM   #5
mstacle
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm liking where this is going.
mstacle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 12:14 PM   #6
gaucho777
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin
Posts: 5,609
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
NOS Ideale lichens should fetch at least $20.
gaucho777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 12:17 PM   #7
SteveSGP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minnesota- the frozen tundra
Bikes: 1977 Raleigh Super Grand Prix, 1976 Gitane Tour de France
Posts: 1,944
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Can't wait for the outcome of this.
SteveSGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 12:18 PM   #8
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
To be continued...
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 12:42 PM   #9
ThermionicScott 
Gratuitous glib and snark
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)
Posts: 13,606
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Well, you could always lace it up and ride gingerly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
RUSA #7498

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 11-15-11 at 01:05 PM.
ThermionicScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 12:53 PM   #10
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
Thread Starter
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
But as I readied my adjustable wrench, prayed the nuts were not too rusted for an easy removal, and peered to the undercarriage of this neglected piece of French craftsmanship, my heart sank and raced at the same time!


I was about to retrieve what appears to be an Ideale Model 90, with full aluminum rails and canticle!


I was now fully heartbroken! I could not tell if the water droplets falling on this saddle were my tears or rain drops! Here was a true C&V French treasure, that had been abused, not by too much riding, but obviously from improper storage!


Of course, without being able to read the logo on the skirt, identification of which Ideale model I now possessed was difficult. Within a few minutes of searching ebay, I found this listing for a NOS Ideale Mod. 90 with a BIN of $450.

The stamping in the ebay NOS rail was the same as the one I retrieved from the Stump Dump.


A search on Velo Base produced an identical frame and rail stamping, with the only difference the number "9 - 0" instead of the "9 - 9" which was in my rescue and the ebay sample.

Now the question: Is there any hope of restoring this French treasure, or should I just lock it away in cold storage?
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 12:57 PM   #11
ColonelJLloyd 
Senior Member
 
ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville
Bikes:
Posts: 8,286
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Sell it in its current state or remove the leather and sell the rails only. Someone in Japan will give you a bunch of money for it.
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
ColonelJLloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 01:05 PM   #12
hagen2456
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Copenhagen
Bikes: A load of ancient, old and semi-vintage bikes of divers sorts
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Can't say, really. How do you people feel about sandpapering the surface to see how deep is the damage? There just might be sound leather somewhere not too deep. Sure, would never be the same as a reasonably well kept Selle Ideale, but they were sturdy things. As far as I can judge, the leather used for them was actually of better quality than that used for Brooks saddles.

If it looks like it can be kinda saved, the next thing to do is to "block" it. like in http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/brooks.html and there are other links out there for that treatment, just can't find them at the moment.
hagen2456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 01:08 PM   #13
dphi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: portland, or
Bikes: falcon majorca
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Man, I was really hoping you would end the thread off with a post showing how you somehow magically revived the leather. Oh well, cool find either way.
dphi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 01:41 PM   #14
jr59
Senior Member
 
jr59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: the 904, Jax fl
Bikes:
Posts: 2,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Somebody will buy it! My time looking at ebay has taught me that much!
jr59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 01:47 PM   #15
gaucho777
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin
Posts: 5,609
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
IF you are unsuccessful in restoring the leather, please do not through away the back plate. If you don't want to keep it for yourself, or if you end up selling the rails only, I have a special place for the back plate on my Ideale 90 Speciale Competition (which is missing its back plate).


Last edited by gaucho777; 11-15-11 at 02:22 PM. Reason: corrected typo: it's -> its
gaucho777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 02:04 PM   #16
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
Thread Starter
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Sell it in its current state or remove the leather and sell the rails only. Someone in Japan will give you a bunch of money for it.
I'm watching a couple of torn leather alloy railed Ideales on ebay at this moment. It will be interesting to see what they fetch.

This would be one of my "grail" saddles, if it were in better condition. I can't decide yet whether to keep or sell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hagen2456 View Post
Can't say, really. How do you people feel about sandpapering the surface to see how deep is the damage? There just might be sound leather somewhere not too deep. Sure, would never be the same as a reasonably well kept Selle Ideale, but they were sturdy things. As far as I can judge, the leather used for them was actually of better quality than that used for Brooks saddles.

If it looks like it can be kinda saved, the next thing to do is to "block" it. like in http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/brooks.html and there are other links out there for that treatment, just can't find them at the moment.
I might be tempted to give this a try. At the moment I'd say it will need at least .5mm in most places to smooth it out. The crinkled surface is rather deep in places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dphi View Post
Man, I was really hoping you would end the thread off with a post showing how you somehow magically revived the leather. Oh well, cool find either way.
I've only had the saddle in my possession for 24 hours! Since I left the camera here at the church I could not post about it last evening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jr59 View Post
Somebody will buy it! My time looking at ebay has taught me that much!
I've never sold anything on ebay, just bought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
IF you are unsuccessful in restoring the leather, please do not through away the back plate. If you don't want to keep it for yourself, or if you end up selling the rails only, I have a special place for the back plate on my Ideale 90 Speciale Competition (which is missing it's back plate).

Is your Model 90 a steel or aluminum railed model? The back plate on this appears to be aluminum.

Don't worry, this saddle will never be thrown away (a second time).
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 02:20 PM   #17
gaucho777
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin
Posts: 5,609
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Is your Model 90 a steel or aluminum railed model?
I believe it has aluminum rails, but I'll have to confirm when I am at home tonight. (By the way, did I mention that I went to mass on Sunday and have fulfilled all the sacraments except Holy Orders and Anointing the Sick? )
gaucho777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 02:31 PM   #18
Ex Pres
#39
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: the 35223 (AL)
Bikes:
Posts: 6,280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Soak it in a bucket of water. I'm serious. Soak it.
Ex Pres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 02:39 PM   #19
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 862 Post(s)
A decent leather guy (there's one here in Sacramento who does this)
can cut, chamfer, form, stretch, and finish this pretty nicely with
a new piece of leather. The hardest part at this time seems to be
getting decent quality leather.

Just a thought.



Because I have one of these, and am completely clueless
as to why it would be a "grail" saddle (it is verrry comfy)
perhaps you might trade a couple of why's for my photos?

I really like the bike it's on, in spite of the sad state of its
paint. I can't recall, because it's been at least 25 years
since I put this together, but it's probable I scrounged
the saddle from the same heap of junked bikes in Merced
that provided the frame. At any rate, I've always enjoyed
riding it, and knowing the saddle is the envy of at least
one person makes it all the more sweet.......
Attached Images
File Type: jpg saddle details 007.jpg (101.3 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg saddle details 003.jpg (98.0 KB, 685 views)
File Type: jpg saddle details 006.jpg (96.4 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg saddle details 008.jpg (97.1 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg saddle details 002.jpg (92.1 KB, 715 views)
3alarmer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 02:56 PM   #20
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
Thread Starter
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
I believe it has aluminum rails, but I'll have to confirm when I am at home tonight. (By the way, did I mention that I went to mass on Sunday and have fulfilled all the sacraments except Holy Orders and Anointing the Sick? )
I'll not comment since I'm a Presbyterian pastor and we only practice two or the seven Roman Catholic sacraments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
Soak it in a bucket of water. I'm serious. Soak it.
What will this do for the cracking and the lichens growing on the surface?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
A decent leather guy (there's one here in Sacramento who does this)
can cut, chamfer, form, stretch, and finish this pretty nicely with
a new piece of leather. The hardest part at this time seems to be
getting decent quality leather.

Just a thought.

Because I have one of these, and am completely clueless
as to why it would be a "grail" saddle (it is verrry comfy)
perhaps you might trade a couple of why's for my photos?

I really like the bike it's on, in spite of the sad state of its
paint. I can't recall, because it's been at least 25 years
since I put this together, but it's probable I scrounged
the saddle from the same heap of junked bikes in Merced
that provided the frame. At any rate, I've always enjoyed
riding it, and knowing the saddle is the envy of at least
one person makes it all the more sweet.......
I might go the route of a recovering. I actually remember seeing on ebay (in the past year+), the leather tops for these frames.

3 alarmer, your saddle, while very nice, is not the same. Your Lycett has a traditional steel frame with round rails. This Ideale has aluminum flat rails, frame, and post clamp, with some steel (rusting) hardware bits.





These types of Ideale saddles go for significantly more on ebay. Currently there are several with asking prices all over $400.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 04:25 PM   #21
gaucho777
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin
Posts: 5,609
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Is your Model 90 a steel or aluminum railed model?
Just confirmed that mine has steel rails (and, btw, they are the more common oval-shaped rails, not flat rails like yours).
gaucho777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 05:01 PM   #22
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 862 Post(s)
Once again, I am the envy of no one................
3alarmer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 05:20 PM   #23
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
Thread Starter
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
Once again, I am the envy of no one................
I wouldn't say that! I don't have a Lycett in my saddle collection and your saddle is very nice looking!

__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 06:05 PM   #24
tanguy frame
Senior Member
 
tanguy frame's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland, OR metro area
Bikes:
Posts: 976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I may have the Ideale saddle in my garage - need to check. I had no idea it could fetch $400 and more on ebay. I bought mine new in 1978 and rode it several years. it has the aluminum rails and it's in decent shape - I need to see if I can find it in my junk pile.
tanguy frame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-11, 06:17 PM   #25
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
Thread Starter
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanguy frame View Post
I may have the Ideale saddle in my garage - need to check. I had no idea it could fetch $400 and more on ebay. I bought mine new in 1978 and rode it several years. it has the aluminum rails and it's in decent shape - I need to see if I can find it in my junk pile.
I hope it doesn't have lichens growing on it!
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:49 PM.