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Old 11-16-11, 08:28 PM   #1
jimmuller 
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What nationality?

Now for today's insignificant question. In the old days, which is to say when today's C&V bikes weren't C&V at all, most could be identified with a particular nationality. A Peugeot or Gitane was unambiguously a French bike, a Raleigh English, a Fuji Japanese, etc. The place of manufacture was clear, as were the source of most of the parts and the site of the corporate HQ and ownership. Then things got scrambled.

What would one call, say, a Bianchi made in the far east, or a Masi made in the US, or a Peugeot made in Canada? Is it even possible to make such a pronouncement?
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Old 11-16-11, 08:41 PM   #2
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Bikes.
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Old 11-16-11, 08:42 PM   #3
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I think we lost a little something when this occurred - each bike used to have both the flair and the foibles of the mother country.
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Old 11-16-11, 08:44 PM   #4
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good question. i dont think there is really such a thing anymore as autonomy. atleast in the cycling world.

for example, canondale was founded here in the USA (and still has its HQ here), but then bought by a canadian company, and makes its products in taiwan and china. and thats just the frames
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Old 11-16-11, 08:45 PM   #5
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You can call the Peugeot's French Canadians? Or the real reason Import tax evaders?? Bianchi's big sell outs, are they even bianchis anymore? Someone could get creative with Masi Im sure
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Old 11-16-11, 08:51 PM   #6
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Are we talking just frames, or whole bikes? I have Austrian bikes w/ British tubing, Italian lugs, French saddles, and Italian components, and my first Bianchi had Huret gears and a Bianchi-branded Ideale saddle.
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Old 11-16-11, 09:16 PM   #7
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a Raleigh English, etc. The place of manufacture was clear, as were the source of most of the parts and the site of the corporate HQ and ownership.
Yeah, well, my 1983 Raleigh Super Course was made in Japan and sold by a U.S. company (Huffy).

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Old 11-16-11, 09:34 PM   #8
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Sinoitalian?....Italian-american?

.........


..........





But seriously, Almost every bike I've ever owned, even as
far back as the 70's, has been specced with components
from a country different from its "country of origin". Back then
it was all the Normandy hubs and crappy French derailleurs.

Schwinn only made frames. It was nice when companies like
Bendix were still making hubs here, but that was a long time ago.
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Old 11-16-11, 09:36 PM   #9
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At least for PDG Series Paramounts there is Japanamount (or Pretendamount).
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Old 11-16-11, 09:48 PM   #10
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live with the confusion. at least for a while 'til all that 'nationality' becomes just meaningless. bikes are not alone. swiss watches. german cars. china made mercedes. brazillian bimmers. mexican folkswagens. american hyundais. whatever you can name it. this is written by one who born in asia but aged in multiple countries, living in the states.

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Old 11-16-11, 10:06 PM   #11
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The name painted on the frame,suggests a building location,
where the parts to be fitted,
all had a meeting place,

though some prestige names were sent out needing the retail shop
to finish the frame threading.and such
then "Building" itself needs to be defined, which part.. ?
before or after the paint?


Though when brand names became a commodity itself, that went down the Loo..
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Old 11-16-11, 10:46 PM   #12
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my first Bianchi had Huret gears and a Bianchi-branded Ideale saddle.
i mean this in the nicest way, but that sounds so gross, that's like drinking sprite with milk.......IMHO, i think that might be a against the law or something, sure shimano with italian and italian with italian but french parts do not belong on italian frames...

maybe i'm just a bike racist....
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Old 11-16-11, 11:22 PM   #13
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I really think this began just post-war. Prior to that there was difference in style and use; English Time Trials on IGH equiped bikes, French tours, American Track and 6 Day events. Seems things changed a bit during the mid 50's with increased import/export activity. The result seems to be less variation. If you want a bicycle with a national characteristic, it's off to a local framebuilder just like in those good old postwar days. The following was a romanticized view of bicycling history for sure!
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Old 11-17-11, 05:31 AM   #14
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To me, where the bike is built defines its nationality. So, there are French Peugeots, and Canadian Peugeots - and they are very different from one another. The same for Raleigh, Bianchi, and who knows how many others.

I have seen this question posed, before, and, for the life of me, I cannot understand the confusion. But that is just me.
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Old 11-17-11, 06:06 AM   #15
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At least for PDG Series Paramounts there is Japanamount (or Pretendamount).
I prefer the term "Scwhinnasonic" for the Panasonic built Schwinns, like my 1973 World Voyageur, 1987 Prologue, and 1992 Paramount Series 5.
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Old 11-17-11, 06:16 AM   #16
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I think quality is more important than who made it and where.
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Old 11-17-11, 06:22 AM   #17
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We must preserve national purity at all costs!

Oh wait, wrong forum.
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Old 11-17-11, 06:50 AM   #18
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There was also a time when hobbyists couldn't sit down and talk to fellow hobbyists from around the world whenever they wanted. The world has gotten smaller. Face facts.
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Old 11-17-11, 07:19 AM   #19
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Miele ... built in Canada by Italians ..

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Old 11-17-11, 07:35 AM   #20
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Back in the day, Canadian built Peugeots were called "a big improvement".
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Old 11-17-11, 07:37 AM   #21
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Once upon a time many countries had their own industries making products mostly for domestic consumption and, to a lesser degree, export. Globalization killed off all but the companies that could successfully dominate in an export market. National industries are now, at best, vestiges of the past.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, or a bad thing, it's just the way it is.
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Old 11-17-11, 07:43 AM   #22
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Jim, I remember when I bought my RRA in '81 the salesman told me that it was the last year that model was to be made in England. That was my first hint of things to come. Over time I noticed several items whose brands were once associated with one country actually outsourced from another.

Anyway a friend had a '82 Nishiki that was IDENTICAL to my Raleigh except for some chrome trim so it wasn't too difficult to determine where Raleigh shifted their low end production to. Rashiki?

I don't know who manufactured my daughter's 1990 Japanese badged Bianchi Volpe. This is also where the generational aspect comes in, she doesn't care that an Italian brand has roots in Japan... It's the older folks, primarily, that have to become used to the whole 'world manufacturing' way of business.

I maybe wrong, but I think my sister's Lambert is the last attempt at complete in house bicycle manufacturing.

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Old 11-17-11, 08:01 AM   #23
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My 1974 Hetchins came with an Italian drive train and French wheels.
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Old 11-17-11, 12:21 PM   #24
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During the 80's the bike companies didn't really have a choice but to approach the business as a global one. With tumultuous things happening like the fall of the French component industry and the rise of technological and value challenges by the Japanese component makers, Everyone had to open up their minds and think of the possibility of building bikes that are not nationalistic standard bearers of a country's bicycling industry.
I'm sure a lot of French cyclists were cringing when they first encountered Shimano equipped Peugeots and Gitanes and the last straw might have been when Vitus tubing dissapeard from their frames and Italian and Japanese tubing totally took over in their model lines. Maybe that's why there was not that much outcry when Peugeot dissapeared from the market in the 90's.
With just 3 big component companies supplying the bicycling industry these days ("Sramanolo"),I think that its just not as fun as it used to be, when there were so many brands and unique designs to choose from.
JMOs

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Old 11-17-11, 12:24 PM   #25
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At least for PDG Series Paramounts there is Japanamount (or Pretendamount).
Funny! (Pretendamount...).
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