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  1. #1
    AmiableNitrite Member VonCarlos's Avatar
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    Trouble with ball-movements

    I opened up a 1981 Campy Grand Sport read hub to change the bearings and replace the grease and discovered a bad cone. I wasn't able to find a replacement GS cone but was able to find Record cones. Problem is, that the GS and Record cones have a different profile and use different size bearings.
    The GS cone is more shallow and uses a smaller bearing.
    The Record cone is more concave and uses a bigger bearing.
    I did a lot of internet and forum searching to see if swapping was possible, but found no definitive answer.
    So I used the Record cones and larger bearings but left the original cups in the GS hubs.
    Problem is, I can now hear the bearings slapping into each other. I believe I have the bearings adjusted correctly.
    No play with skewer tightened and wheel spins freely: a little play with skewer loose.
    Anyone have some knowledge on this?

    PS. I also thought to title this: Trouble with my balls slapping. :-)

  2. #2
    WNG
    WNG is offline
    Spin Forest! Spin! WNG's Avatar
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    LOL! I would have used that alternative title!
    I hate it when that happens.

    If you used larger bearings, did you adjust for the correct number? I wasn't aware the GS hub used smaller bearings....is there 10 instead of 9?
    “You meet the nicest people on two wheels!"
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  3. #3
    Senior Member jbkirby's Avatar
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    I was having trouble with ball movements until I discovered Metamucil and...oh...........BALL............never mind. I'll move this discussion to the 50+ forum...
    1971 Raleigh DL170 International, Chartreuse; 1972 Raleigh DL170 International, Champagne

  4. #4
    AmiableNitrite Member VonCarlos's Avatar
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    Opps, I made a mistake here, the front hub bearings are different sizes but the rear hub uses the same 1/4 inch bearings.
    Still have the bearing slap noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by VonCarlos View Post
    I opened up a 1981 Campy Grand Sport read hub to change the bearings and replace the grease and discovered a bad cone. I wasn't able to find a replacement GS cone but was able to find Record cones. Problem is, that the GS and Record cones have a different profile and use different size bearings.
    The GS cone is more shallow and uses a smaller bearing.
    The Record cone is more concave and uses a bigger bearing.
    I did a lot of internet and forum searching to see if swapping was possible, but found no definitive answer.
    So I used the Record cones and larger bearings but left the original cups in the GS hubs.
    Problem is, I can now hear the bearings slapping into each other. I believe I have the bearings adjusted correctly.
    No play with skewer tightened and wheel spins freely: a little play with skewer loose.
    Anyone have some knowledge on this?

    PS. I also thought to title this: Trouble with my balls slapping. :-)

  5. #5
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    You have 9 1/4" balls in each race?

    Maybe add more grease?

  6. #6
    Oh Snap, not again... atmdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    You have 9 1/4" balls in each race?

    Maybe add more grease?
    maybe you need a wheelbarrow...

  7. #7
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Better to have too few balls than too many.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  8. #8
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonCarlos View Post
    I also thought to title this: Trouble with my balls slapping. :-)
    Just as well. There is no cure for that.

  9. #9
    AmiableNitrite Member VonCarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbkirby View Post
    I was having trouble with ball movements until I discovered Metamucil and...oh...........BALL............never mind. I'll move this discussion to the 50+ forum...
    Okay, I tried adding Metamucil to the grease but no improvement.

  10. #10
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
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    I have no idea how to help you, but thanks for getting my attention.

    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

    Perhaps you didn't really hear what you thought I said...
    ...or maybe you did, and that's why you're so mad.


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  11. #11
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
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    Well, I was going to say 'lower your saddle' until I read the thread.

    But seriously, you can hear the balls? You must either have owl ears, or, like John said, not enough grease. My feeling would be that if it feels smooth it will be OK, but some engineer type will probably follow this up to explain why that's bunk.

  12. #12
    Senior Member randyjawa's Avatar
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    Better to have too few balls than too many.
    That is how Lance feels, also...;-)

    On another note, how can you hear the balls slapping? And, on which wheel? I ask only because I cannot imagine how I would be able to isolate this sound and determine its cause while riding.
    Learn how to find, restore and maintain vintage road bicycles at... MY "TEN SPEEDS"

  13. #13
    AmiableNitrite Member VonCarlos's Avatar
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    Here is a video of the bearing slap. There is plenty of grease in there, so much, it was squeezing out the oil-hole in the dust-cap.

    Last edited by VonCarlos; 11-18-11 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Ad text

  14. #14
    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    I clicked this thread with high expectations. I was not disappointed.

    I have nothing to contribute, of course.
    To err is human. To moo is bovine.

    Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


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  15. #15
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    It sounds like you have play between the bearings and a non-optimal load angle, probably due to the different cone profile. Hub bearings contact the cone and shell races at about a 45 degree angle to provide roughly equal axial and radial loads. When you substitute a cone, it can affect the load angle and amount of paly between the bearings.

    You can adjust the cones for no axial movement yet have insufficient radial loading. If so, when the hub turns the balls will turn with the hub but also fall to the bottom of the shell if there's slop between the bearings, This will create a clacking.

    Take the hub apart. The bearings should have created a visible track in the grease on the cone. Normally, this track will be about halfway up the cone race. If it's near the bottom, the radial load is being decreased. If it's near the top, the axial load is being decreased.

    One other thing that can create this noise is accidentally inserting one ball that is smaller than the others. Of course, this ball will not be loaded and consequently fall against its neighbours, causing clacking.

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