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Old 11-17-11, 12:41 PM   #1
VonCarlos
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Trouble with ball-movements

I opened up a 1981 Campy Grand Sport read hub to change the bearings and replace the grease and discovered a bad cone. I wasn't able to find a replacement GS cone but was able to find Record cones. Problem is, that the GS and Record cones have a different profile and use different size bearings.
The GS cone is more shallow and uses a smaller bearing.
The Record cone is more concave and uses a bigger bearing.
I did a lot of internet and forum searching to see if swapping was possible, but found no definitive answer.
So I used the Record cones and larger bearings but left the original cups in the GS hubs.
Problem is, I can now hear the bearings slapping into each other. I believe I have the bearings adjusted correctly.
No play with skewer tightened and wheel spins freely: a little play with skewer loose.
Anyone have some knowledge on this?

PS. I also thought to title this: Trouble with my balls slapping. :-)
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Old 11-17-11, 12:58 PM   #2
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LOL! I would have used that alternative title!
I hate it when that happens.

If you used larger bearings, did you adjust for the correct number? I wasn't aware the GS hub used smaller bearings....is there 10 instead of 9?
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Old 11-17-11, 01:01 PM   #3
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I was having trouble with ball movements until I discovered Metamucil and...oh...........BALL............never mind. I'll move this discussion to the 50+ forum...
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Old 11-17-11, 04:24 PM   #4
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Opps, I made a mistake here, the front hub bearings are different sizes but the rear hub uses the same 1/4 inch bearings.
Still have the bearing slap noise.

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Originally Posted by VonCarlos View Post
I opened up a 1981 Campy Grand Sport read hub to change the bearings and replace the grease and discovered a bad cone. I wasn't able to find a replacement GS cone but was able to find Record cones. Problem is, that the GS and Record cones have a different profile and use different size bearings.
The GS cone is more shallow and uses a smaller bearing.
The Record cone is more concave and uses a bigger bearing.
I did a lot of internet and forum searching to see if swapping was possible, but found no definitive answer.
So I used the Record cones and larger bearings but left the original cups in the GS hubs.
Problem is, I can now hear the bearings slapping into each other. I believe I have the bearings adjusted correctly.
No play with skewer tightened and wheel spins freely: a little play with skewer loose.
Anyone have some knowledge on this?

PS. I also thought to title this: Trouble with my balls slapping. :-)
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Old 11-17-11, 04:46 PM   #5
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You have 9 1/4" balls in each race?

Maybe add more grease?
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Old 11-17-11, 05:16 PM   #6
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You have 9 1/4" balls in each race?

Maybe add more grease?
maybe you need a wheelbarrow...
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Old 11-17-11, 05:42 PM   #7
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Better to have too few balls than too many.
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Old 11-17-11, 05:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VonCarlos View Post
I also thought to title this: Trouble with my balls slapping. :-)
Just as well. There is no cure for that.
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Old 11-17-11, 06:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbkirby View Post
I was having trouble with ball movements until I discovered Metamucil and...oh...........BALL............never mind. I'll move this discussion to the 50+ forum...
Okay, I tried adding Metamucil to the grease but no improvement.
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Old 11-17-11, 07:00 PM   #10
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I have no idea how to help you, but thanks for getting my attention.
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Old 11-17-11, 07:48 PM   #11
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Well, I was going to say 'lower your saddle' until I read the thread.

But seriously, you can hear the balls? You must either have owl ears, or, like John said, not enough grease. My feeling would be that if it feels smooth it will be OK, but some engineer type will probably follow this up to explain why that's bunk.
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Old 11-18-11, 04:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Better to have too few balls than too many.
That is how Lance feels, also...;-)

On another note, how can you hear the balls slapping? And, on which wheel? I ask only because I cannot imagine how I would be able to isolate this sound and determine its cause while riding.
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Old 11-18-11, 10:30 AM   #13
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Here is a video of the bearing slap. There is plenty of grease in there, so much, it was squeezing out the oil-hole in the dust-cap.


Last edited by VonCarlos; 11-18-11 at 10:32 AM. Reason: Ad text
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Old 11-18-11, 10:32 AM   #14
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I clicked this thread with high expectations. I was not disappointed.

I have nothing to contribute, of course.
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Old 11-18-11, 11:08 AM   #15
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It sounds like you have play between the bearings and a non-optimal load angle, probably due to the different cone profile. Hub bearings contact the cone and shell races at about a 45 degree angle to provide roughly equal axial and radial loads. When you substitute a cone, it can affect the load angle and amount of paly between the bearings.

You can adjust the cones for no axial movement yet have insufficient radial loading. If so, when the hub turns the balls will turn with the hub but also fall to the bottom of the shell if there's slop between the bearings, This will create a clacking.

Take the hub apart. The bearings should have created a visible track in the grease on the cone. Normally, this track will be about halfway up the cone race. If it's near the bottom, the radial load is being decreased. If it's near the top, the axial load is being decreased.

One other thing that can create this noise is accidentally inserting one ball that is smaller than the others. Of course, this ball will not be loaded and consequently fall against its neighbours, causing clacking.
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