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Old 11-18-11, 01:17 PM   #1
himespau 
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got burned on an ebay frame - can I fix, or should I just sell

So I did it again. Got burned on an ebay purchase. I need to stay away from ebay.

This time it was a frame that I bought where the seller described it at one point as "looks unused". The pictures (black frame with chrome forks) looked a little dinged in the paint, but not too bad (pics were kind of dark so I took the seller at his word rather than asking for new pics - stupid me). I did ask him a few other questions before purchase with regards to the drop outs, seatpost mobility, and the condition of the fork, but that was all.

When the frame showed up I guess I could say it looks unused if that means left outside in the sun and rain for the last 30 years (it's an '80 or '81 Fuji Gran Tourer SE mixte I'd planned on building up for my wife).

So now I have this frame that the chrome looks ok (maybe a little spotty, but that can probably be polished), but the pain is missing chips all over the place (including one long stretch of about 5" by maybe 1/4" where it's missing and there is what appears to be dark surface rust (more black brown than reddish, but I don't think that's just the color of the naked metal).

When I contacted the seller to say what the hell, he said the looks unused was referring to the parts attached to the frame as if to say they were original and that the whole thing looked unused 10 years ago before he'd taken the parts off and he'd ridden it year round and then put the parts back on, and then went off about how he'd undercharged me for shipping and I should be grateful for what I'd got.

So basically, no chance at working anything out with him. That leaves me with 2 choices as I see it:
1: fix the paint
2: sell it at a loss on CL and go buy the Soma Buena Vista to build up for my wife instead like I should have done in the first place

I've never done a repaint before, so I don't know how much time/work is involved. A powdercoat would not be worth the cost. A chemical bath is not possible at my current location. Can I just rub at the rust with steel wool and then paint over it? What type of paint would I use? It's a sort of semigloss black, so color matching shouldn't be too hard.

Is fixing the paint what I should try, or should I just sell this karmic black hole and get it out of my life (at a loss I'm sure as I overpaid for what I thought was a nice frame in a harder to find bigger size) and move on?
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Old 11-18-11, 01:18 PM   #2
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Can we see some photos?
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Old 11-18-11, 01:23 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
A chemical bath is not possible at my current location.
I'm about to construct a chemical bath this weekend to soak a couple frames next week and could soak yours as well.
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Old 11-18-11, 01:26 PM   #4
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+1, photos will a give us a much better idiea for a plan of action. For instance, depending on where the objectionable areas are located, you may be able to get away with a partial repaint, using contrasting panels or a fade, so that you don't have to worry about matching paint.
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Old 11-18-11, 01:27 PM   #5
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Creating a finish any where near as durable as the factory paint is very difficult. Any home paint job you give it will be prone to chipping from the first day the bike is used. Often you will have paint damage resulting from minor bumps with tools when assembling the bike.

If you want the bike to look perfect, then you have to either pay for a professional refinishing from a reputable frame painter or a powdercoater, or get a new frame.

Also, leave negative feedback, and possibly file a report with ebay. The seller has the responsibility to accurately describe the item being sold. If he said 'looks new' a reasonable person would assume the whole thing looks new, even if he only intended to say the components look new.
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Old 11-18-11, 01:31 PM   #6
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Posting this incident without a link to the eBay auction is a bit annoying...

? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuji-Mixte-F...item2eb9065a9e

Last edited by cranky old road; 11-18-11 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Added probable link
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Old 11-18-11, 01:33 PM   #7
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Buyers rule on ebay (I know, I am a frequent seller). File a claim with paypal/ebay: your claim is simple: "Item was not as described". You WILL WIN. And seller will have to pay return shipping if they want the item back, REGARDLESS if his ENGLISH is good or not.

Don't mess around. File the claim.

Last edited by wrk101; 11-18-11 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 11-18-11, 01:35 PM   #8
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Will probably take some photos tonight/this weekend. I just got the frame Wednesday night, looked at it, sent a message off to the seller, and haven't gone back down to the garage to look at it again as I was so pissed off last night. Maybe a fresh set of eyes will show it as not so bad, but now even the seller says that even he would describe the frame condition as 5/10 and it was maybe his bad english that led me to think that it was more than the components that "looked unused." Hate it when they pull the "english is not my language" card. Definitely will be going with the negative feedback, but yeah, I'll post some pics to see if y'all have advice in the paint vs just sell it and move on camp. It's just frustrating because I'd been searching a while for a 21" or larger mixte vintage frame and would prefer not to have to start the search over again.
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Old 11-18-11, 01:41 PM   #9
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"When I acquired the bike it had a broken rim but appeared unused otherwise complete with stock parts." A lawyerly description? He doesn't say how long ago he acquired it or what he did to it after. I'd give him a negative if you don't get satisfaction.
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Old 11-18-11, 01:59 PM   #10
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I think it was misleading to say what the bike looked like when he got it... Between that statement and the lack of a real description of condition, it sounds unethical to me.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:04 PM   #11
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hardly seems from the ebay ad that the seller has any problem with English speaking.

I'd send it back....too expensive anyway.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:08 PM   #12
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looks like paint is chipped, scraped in the photo on the auction to me. i wouldn't have expected much as far as the paint goes. if it was dented or bent that would be a different matter. people always exaggerate when describing things that they sell, and always think they are worth more than they are to others. such is life. if i wanted it to look nice i would just have it powdercoated.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:09 PM   #13
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For $200 - SEND IT BACK. not as described.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:09 PM   #14
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File the claim for sure, what she seller did was straight up dishonest.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:12 PM   #15
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200 was too much for that frame, and his feedback was flawed to begin with. Send it back and file with ebay.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:17 PM   #16
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I've never done a repaint before, so I don't know how much time/work is involved.
Send it back but if you can't you could have some FUN playing about with paint.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:26 PM   #17
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If that's the ebay auction, there is no way I would have interpreted it any differently than you did. For that price, the frame should be utterly perfect. Send it back.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:27 PM   #18
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File a claim with Ebay first, before pay pal. You may get your money back and keep the frame if the dealer does not want to pay for return shipping.

My wife deals with ebay a lot and that is her suggestion. She said to raise a big fuss with ebay, don't be coy or business like. Don't be rude, but be firm.

And, do not touch the frame until after the resolution, because the frame is then yours with no recourse.

Tom

Last edited by Anthropy; 11-18-11 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:32 PM   #19
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I can also see scrapes and missing paint on the fork in the auction photos. Clearly the description was carefully stated in a way that I think is meant to mislead. Someone who bought a bike new and is now selling it ten years later, after not taking care of it could say it was showroom condition when acquired. Who cares about what it "was" like. All that matters is what it "is" like now that it is being sold or purchased. The others have provided the best advice about filing a not as described claim with Ebay and then letting him deal with that. On the other hand, I would steer clear of Ebay if you are not well versed in weasel clauses.

Buyers do rule on Ebay, but that can be a bad thing too. I once sold a very expensive cashmere overcoat for very cheap and the buyer said it wasn't cashmere and that I must have sewn the tags in it. I don't even know how to sew, and the close-up photos of the tags clearly showed that they were factory sewn. However, PayPal sided with the buyer. After several phone calls, a lot of threats, hassles, and accusations, I got the coat back at the buyers expense and he got his purchase price back. Ebay continually siding with the buyer is not always a good thing.
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Old 11-18-11, 02:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Buyers rule on ebay (I know, I am a frequent seller). File a claim with paypal/ebay: your claim is simple: "Item was not as described". You WILL WIN. And seller will have to pay return shipping if they want the item back, REGARDLESS if his ENGLISH is good or not.

Don't mess around. File the claim.
This. It sucks to sell on eBay for this very reason, but we deal I guess.
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Old 11-18-11, 03:01 PM   #21
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Creating a finish any where near as durable as the factory paint is very difficult. Any home paint job you give it will be prone to chipping from the first day the bike is used. Often you will have paint damage resulting from minor bumps with tools when assembling the bike.
^This is probably true unless you've got automotive painting setup & experience, or similar. I have an old Apollo/Kuwahara hi-ten bike that the previous owner had stripped and himself painted a shiny metallic green. Comes off like butter.

Hope you win your ebay claim - in the interests of everyone who buys there, necessarily relying on the sellers' descriptions to make decisions.
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Old 11-18-11, 03:05 PM   #22
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'Fuji' pantographed (?) cranks in the ebay listing (assuming it's the one posted by 'cranky old road') are cool though.
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Old 11-18-11, 03:38 PM   #23
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there are lots of posts on painting this is my experience 2 frames

In general it is more work and cost than you would expect.

Key to a good job is good prep.....best prep is take it down to bare metal

Frame one : Rattle can using duplicolor
About 60-80 dollars of materiels.... 2 cans spray paint remover, 2 cans primer, 2 color, 2 clear, sand paper etc Othere people might be able to do with less but a did multple thin coats and there is a lot of overspray, and I am not always efficient
result looked nice but chips easily..... would have been better off powder coating.

Frame 2: Automative paints using preval spayers (rattle can for primer)Cost about $140 as the good stuff costs and is in mimium sizes. used acid etch primer, high fill primer, metallic color and two part polyurethane clear.
Result looks really good and is about 100 times more durable than the rattle can

Basic steps are:

Take frame to bare metal
scuff with scotchgard pad
degrease
Acid etch primer
fill primer
Sand
2-3 color coats, with careful care to recoat times or sanding between coats
3 coats of clear, again careful care paid to recoat times.

bottom line a lot of work, but you can get some great results, but in many cases powedrcoat will be cheaper
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Old 11-18-11, 03:51 PM   #24
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If that's the ebay auction, there is no way I would have interpreted it any differently than you did. For that price, the frame should be utterly perfect. Send it back.
I would have interpreted it much different.....seriously, the chainrings are caked with dirty grease. Very clearly, old and well used.

My 2 points:

Point 1: The sellers a bonehead for saying 'unused'
Point 2: To the buyer: Come on....a little common sense goes a long way. Did you really think the bike was unused after looking at the pics?

I'll side with the buyer on this one only because the seller used the word unused.
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Old 11-18-11, 04:14 PM   #25
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It's usually the policy of Ebay that the first to file a dispute is favored. Show your correspondence(do all your email through Ebay) with the seller and pictures, with no resolve, which is policy with Ebay. Open up a dispute with Paypal and lock the sellers account(this will expedite a closure). Good Luck.
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