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Old 12-09-04, 06:38 PM   #1
JeStOnE
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Anyone familar with sewups and tubulars?

Im wondering what's the best tire for resistance to punctures and longest mileage.
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Old 12-09-04, 09:45 PM   #2
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Im wondering what's the best tire for resistance to punctures and longest mileage.
I am using Continental Sprinter(butyl tube) tubular tires which ride nice and are long wearing.

I am also using Challenge Vulcano(butyl tube) tubular tires which feel great.

Most tubular tires seem to be well made. The highend tires use Latex tubes which require frequent inflation.
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Old 12-10-04, 12:26 AM   #3
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I've used tubulars since to late 70's. They're tougher than clinchers which must be paper thin in order to reduce weight. Right now, I'm riding Tufo S3 Lites which weight 215 grams. The lightest clinchers are about 190 grams and you have to add about 70 grams for a tube and rimstrip (unless you have Ksyriums). Tufo's are tubeless and can be filled with a latex sealant which make then flat resistant for punctures up to 2 mm in diameter. I've run through goathead thorns, and the sealant works if the thorn is removed right away. They're extremely tough, and if you do flat, you're not suddenly riding on your rim downhill at 40 mph. The drawback is gluing them on to the rim, but pracitce makes easier, and that you need to carry a spare tire on training rides. I won't ride clinchers after a bad experience with a sudden blowout. BTW, I get about one flat for every 15 that my riding buddies get over approximately the same terrain and riding time. They're not for everyone though, and a few pros are using clinchers now.
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Old 12-10-04, 08:58 AM   #4
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I'm running either conti sprinters or Tufo Elite roads.
both are good tires but I find my sprinters loose air faster than
the tufo's (and not a whole lot either).
I just wish I could find some new tubulars that have gumwall sides,
looks better on a vintage bike. . .
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Old 12-10-04, 10:18 PM   #5
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A few years ago, one of the Italian cycling magazines did a survey of what the pros used on their bikes, both for training and racing. Virtually all (something like 85%) used clinchers for training with just under 50% using the clinchers for racing too (a much higher percentage used clinchers in races that included steep or long descents due to the added safety.) The most common reason for this type of behaviour was that they could readily repair their own flats while training and didn't have to worry about properly glueing them on straight. Another major consideration for non-pros is that of the cost and complexity of repair, where clinchers win hands down. My personal viewpoint is that a good silk tubular would be my first choice if money and convenience were no issue. Otherwise, I too would lean towards the choice made by the surveyed pros, where cost is no object (the tires are supplied free of charge to them) and they often don't need to even worry about the glueing.
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Old 12-10-04, 10:32 PM   #6
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Best way to install a new sewup is to mount it without glue first, pump it up to full pressure, and let it sit overnight. Remove the tire, apply glue, then remount. I don't think it's much harder then clinchers.
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Old 12-10-04, 10:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DieselDan
Best way to install a new sewup is to mount it without glue first, pump it up to full pressure, and let it sit overnight. Remove the tire, apply glue, then remount. I don't think it's much harder then clinchers.
I realize this is going to invite wrath and ridicule, but here goes anyway. Why spend all that cash on clinchers or sew-ups? I have never used either and have found "normal" tires to be quite serviceable.
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Old 12-10-04, 11:09 PM   #8
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There's a lot of bull out there about clinchers vs tubulars, like the comment about clinchers most be paper thin to reduce weight and tubulars are tougher!!!! I too rode tubulars since the early 70's until the mid 80's when I made the switch to clinchers and I can tell you that clinchers are far more durable then tubulars, plus a lot easier to repair on the road. Tubulars are faster to replace on the road but not by much, maybe a minute faster! But if you run out of spare tubulars on the road then your faced with the task of repairing the tubular on the road which involves removing the tire, unstitching the back of the tire where the leak is, pulling that section of tube out, buffing the tube, glueing and waiting for that to dry (Glueless patches will work on tubulars so you may not have to wait for the glue to dry), reinstalling the tube, restitching the tube and placing the tire back on the rim. This process will take about 30 minutes if your good, do this process on a clincher and your done in 5 minutes. When I rode tubulars I carried 2 extra tubulars plus a Velox repair kit that came with waxed thread and needle plus patches and glue; it wasn't uncommon to have at least one flat every time you rode, and about once or twice a week you would have two on a ride and about once or twice a month you would have more then two which meant set and repair the darn things (this was my average, which was about the same average my fellow riders had).

When I switched to clinchers my flats reduce to about one a month!!! Sure there was a slight weight penalty of about 100 grams, back in the mid 80's the weight penalty was a bit more then today, today the weight penalty is about 50 grams if you go with the lightest stuff possible. Most roadies that are just riding for excercise or training are not going ride the lightest stuff possible of either the tubulars or the clinchers because they don't wear long (usually less then 900 miles) plus they flat easy due to thin construction. Problem with tubulars is you don't have much of a selection if your needs dictate a different type of tire, and if your riding in a strange town and destroy a tire, a lot of small bike shops won't carry tubulars-so now what? Clinchers have a wide variety of tires from ultralight racing tires that weigh 130 grams to highly puncture resistent tires that weigh 345 grams and everything in between.

also if you don't glue the tire on the rim correctly you risk roll off, of if the temperture is very hot and you have descended down a long steep mountain road using your brakes and now your rims got super hot transfering that heat to the tire it's been a recorded fact that the glue has been know to soften and then rolls off the rim. Also once you replace your orginal tire with spare you now cannot ride as aggressive as you did before in turns without the risk of a roll off. Many Tour of France riders dreaded loosing their original tire because they knew they could not attack the corners as hard with the spare.

But don't take my word for this, because your going get the war effect, so instead read these sites and decide for yourself:

This site has a good comparison done in a pros and cons format: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
(Sheldon talks about most people just throw away their tubulars when they flatted one, I never did, I aways took it home and repaired it).

This site answers questions posed to Jobst Brandt a world reknown expert on cycling: http://yarchive.net/bike/tubulars.html

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Old 12-11-04, 08:21 AM   #9
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Do NOT USE Vittoria Formula Uno tubulars! They SUCK! I only paid twenty dollars a piece for them but they didn't last any time at all. One of them went flat only after a couple hundred miles and I attemped to repair it and the tire just fell apart. I do have an older Formula ONE tire that seems like it's better quality but I just use that one as a spare.

I got a good deal on a pair of Clement Tipo tubulars. The mech at the pro shop where I got them at says they're much better quality. I think the high-end Vittorias are much better quality but they are alot more expensive.
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Old 12-12-04, 05:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAZorro
I realize this is going to invite wrath and ridicule, but here goes anyway. Why spend all that cash on clinchers or sew-ups? I have never used either and have found "normal" tires to be quite serviceable.
...and here comes the ridicule. You have TWO (2) choices for tires/rims: tubular(sew-ups) OR clincher. There is the odd exception with Tufo's tubular clincher, but you still have only two rims choices: tubular(sew-ups) or clincher.
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Old 12-12-04, 07:51 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
I realize this is going to invite wrath and ridicule, but here goes anyway. Why spend all that cash on clinchers or sew-ups? I have never used either and have found "normal" tires to be quite serviceable.
What do you consider a "normal" tire and rim setup?

Good quality Tubular Tires can be purchased for less than Clinchers(normal/common tires?) on Ebay these days. . .
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Old 12-12-04, 11:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
I realize this is going to invite wrath and ridicule, but here goes anyway. Why spend all that cash on clinchers or sew-ups? I have never used either and have found "normal" tires to be quite serviceable.
solid tires ?
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Old 12-12-04, 11:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
solid tires ?
No. Separate tubes and tires. No glue involved.

Tube - usually $3.00 - $5.00. Tire - usually $6.00 - $15.00. What's the point of incurring the additional expense and hassle?
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Old 12-12-04, 02:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
No. Separate tubes and tires. No glue involved.

Tube - usually $3.00 - $5.00. Tire - usually $6.00 - $15.00. What's the point of incurring the additional expense and hassle?
This is not an agruement but a statement of fact. Please use whatever you like but there is a unique feel when riding Tubular Tires.

The set of tubulars I purchased on Ebay were less than you describe for tires and tubes. Don't forget rim strips?

The gluing process is simple.

I use a Plumber's Flux Brush(.25 cents) to brush the glue onto the Rim and Tire.

Let dry to a tack(about 15 minutes)

Assemble the tire and rim.

No Mess. . .

I have never in many years had a tire seperate from the rim during recreational/club riding.
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Old 12-12-04, 02:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
No. Separate tubes and tires. No glue involved.

Tube - usually $3.00 - $5.00. Tire - usually $6.00 - $15.00. What's the point of incurring the additional expense and hassle?
that setup you described is a clincher. the tire itself is a clincher becuase the pressure of the tube pushes the bead of the tire against the inside to the rim, holding it on, "clinching it" against the rim.
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Old 12-12-04, 05:22 PM   #16
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that setup you described is a clincher. the tire itself is a clincher becuase the pressure of the tube pushes the bead of the tire against the inside to the rim, holding it on, "clinching it" against the rim.
Makes more sense now. I'd never heard them referred to as that. I thought those tires that come folded up in a box and cost $65.00+ were clinchers. Thanks for the definition.
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Old 12-13-04, 02:28 AM   #17
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is it right to call clincher "tubeless" as it do not use inner tube.
Tubular actually uses a inner tube sew inside tyre and then glue on to "rim for tubular"
m i right?
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Old 12-13-04, 10:50 AM   #18
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I think those of you who have never ridden a sew-up or tubular tire have no idea what you're missing! Nothing has the ride of a quality silk cased sew-up...! You may not want 'em for everyday use, but treat your "special" ride to a set... I've got some old Clement silks on a mahogany-rimmed Cellini (no, not a Cinelli...). You won't believe how nice they feel, and how well they roll. Cheap sew-ups on the other hand, can be worse than cheap clinchers. They flat easily, roll poorly, and just feel like crap.... I have some of those on a bike too.

That said, my favorite daily rider is on cheap Continental 27" clinchers... Who cares if I punch holes in a $15 tire and a $4 tube? They ride OK too... but they're no silk sew-up.
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Old 12-13-04, 07:58 PM   #19
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In my cross -country tour in 1976 I had 4-6 flats in two months (with 45-50 lbs. paniers, etc.) on 1/1/4" clinchers. My riding buddy had one every other day on sew-ups. Bad choice for touring. However, by the time we got home, he could remove, repair and re-install a tire so effortlessly, I think he could have done it in a tuxedo at a formal dance and no one would have noticed him doing it!
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Old 12-16-04, 03:16 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by smurfy
Do NOT USE Vittoria Formula Uno tubulars! They SUCK! I only paid twenty dollars a piece for them but they didn't last any time at all. One of them went flat only after a couple hundred miles and I attemped to repair it and the tire just fell apart. I do have an older Formula ONE tire that seems like it's better quality but I just use that one as a spare.

I got a good deal on a pair of Clement Tipo tubulars. The mech at the pro shop where I got them at says they're much better quality. I think the high-end Vittorias are much better quality but they are alot more expensive.

your old ones are made in Italy, the new ones in Thailand..

S/F,
CEYA!
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