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  1. #1
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Vacant lot Peugeot find

    I found this Peugeot the other day in a vacant lot when I stopped for coffee. I need help with it's identity and history. I couldn't find a serial # anywhere on it.

    Peugeot Reynolds 531 frame with competition written on the top tube
    Simplex braze on fr der
    Simplex/Peugeot SX-410 rear der
    Stronglight/Peugeot crank
    Pedals say Made in France 03-81
    Weinmann 605 calipers with drilled levers
    Simplex downtube friction shift levers
    Simplex fluted seatpost
    Atax stem

    Front spacing 93mm ?
    Rear spacing 128mm

  2. #2
    Senior Member Chongo's Avatar
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    Is this it?
    http://www.jimlangley.net/ride/py10.html
    It kind of looks like this PY10CP

  3. #3
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    That is an early 1980s Peugeot Competition. The model came in 3 variations; PS12, PK12 and PK13. What you have appears to be the PK12 version. The difference between the PS12 and P13 are the forks and wheels. The PS12 used Reynolds 531 forks and a tubular wheelset, while the PK13 had hi-tensile forks and a clincher wheelset. Since you do ot mention the wheels and there is no evidence of a Reynolds 531 sticker on the fork, the assumption is a Peugeot PK12. Unlike most manufacturers, Peugeot did use the Reynolds fork decal and your Peugeot fork decals appear to be placed too high to leave room for the Reymolds decal, but take a close look because these decals are notoriously fragile. You may find some remants just below the fork crown. The PK13 was was a PK12 with a triple crankset and wider range cogset.

    The year is proably 1981, based on the date codes you found on the pedals. If you have the wheels, you should be able to corroborate this using date codes on the hubs. There should also be date codes on the back of the brake calipers and/or inside the brake lever.

    The PK12 was 4th in the Peugeot line-up during this era. If you do not have the wheelset and want specs for them, please post or send me a private message through the website. BTW, the listed components all appear to be original, based on my catalogue.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ollo_ollo's Avatar
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    Actually, the homeless guy who sleeps in the vacant lot wants his bike back. Send it to me & I'll see to the details of the return.
    visit my homebuilding blog: www.monoplanar.blogspot.com

  5. #5
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    That's a heck of a find. I believe it is a PKN10E, circa 1980, with the drilled stronglight crank and chainrings. The reason you can't find the serial number is simple: it was probably on the bottom bracket, held on by adhesive tape-- they tend to fall off after some abuse.

    I have a PKN10E and a PFN10E from the same time period, and they are fine rides.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  6. #6
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chongo
    Is this it?
    http://www.jimlangley.net/ride/py10.html
    It kind of looks like this PY10CP
    Yes it does. The paint is the same and that is a sweet looking bike.

  7. #7
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar
    That is an early 1980s Peugeot Competition. The model came in 3 variations; PS12, PK12 and PK13. What you have appears to be the PK12 version. The difference between the PS12 and P13 are the forks and wheels. The PS12 used Reynolds 531 forks and a tubular wheelset, while the PK13 had hi-tensile forks and a clincher wheelset. Since you do ot mention the wheels and there is no evidence of a Reynolds 531 sticker on the fork, the assumption is a Peugeot PK12. Unlike most manufacturers, Peugeot did use the Reynolds fork decal and your Peugeot fork decals appear to be placed too high to leave room for the Reymolds decal, but take a close look because these decals are notoriously fragile. You may find some remants just below the fork crown. The PK13 was was a PK12 with a triple crankset and wider range cogset.

    The year is proably 1981, based on the date codes you found on the pedals. If you have the wheels, you should be able to corroborate this using date codes on the hubs. There should also be date codes on the back of the brake calipers and/or inside the brake lever.

    The PK12 was 4th in the Peugeot line-up during this era. If you do not have the wheelset and want specs for them, please post or send me a private message through the website. BTW, the listed components all appear to be original, based on my catalogue.
    Wow, great detailed info T-mar. I checked the fork and it doesn't appear to have ever had 531 decals. The bike was found as pictured except I removed the chain and the seat post and seat. If you could post
    info on the proper wheelset specs that would be helpful.

  8. #8
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poguemahone
    That's a heck of a find. I believe it is a PKN10E, circa 1980, with the drilled stronglight crank and chainrings. The reason you can't find the serial number is simple: it was probably on the bottom bracket, held on by adhesive tape-- they tend to fall off after some abuse.

    I have a PKN10E and a PFN10E from the same time period, and they are fine rides.
    I think you nailed that one. When I first looked the frame over I noticed a rectangular spot on the BB that looked a little less aged than the rest of the area. I thought naw, it's got to be here somewhere. Did it never occur to the French to stamp these #'s?

    If you have pics of your rides or if their posted elsewhere I'd love to see them.

  9. #9
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollo_ollo
    Actually, the homeless guy who sleeps in the vacant lot wants his bike back. Send it to me & I'll see to the details of the return.
    You a funny guy ollo_ollo!

    Really though, this bike was retrieved from a fenced vacant lot where it appeared to have been tossed after being stolen and it's wheels removed. When I first saw it, it was in grass a foot tall but I could see the drilled crank and pedals sticking up and knew it was worth retrieving. I came back later that evening and fished it out with a couple of spokes bent into hooks at the end of a rope.

    Having been the victim of bike thieves on more than one occasion, I know the heartbreak.

  10. #10
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raverson
    Having been the victim of bike thieves on more than one occasion, I know the heartbreak.
    Possibly this bike was reported stolen and the police have a report that could return it to it's owner. End of heartbreak.

  11. #11
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    The resemblance to the PY10CP is only superficial. All Peugeots of the era used the same graphics and the that blue was a common colour. Looking at the details, you will find numerous differences. The PY10CP is a true top end racing model while the Competition is a mid-range model.

    The most obvious difference is the presence of the Reynolds decal on the fork of the PY10CP. Also, the PY10CP has no eyelets on the dropouts, which indicates a true top end, racing machine for the era. Same goes for the recessed brake bolts and brazed on bosses for the MAFAC Competition centre-pull brakes. The Peugeot Competition has none of these features.

    As for components, there are many differences. The Competition's componentry is a step or two down, notably the steel versus aluminum headset. There may be a couple of years difference between the MAFAC Competition centre-pull and Weinmann 605 side-pull brakes, but still the MAFAC are top end, while the Weinmann are mid-range. The same applies for the crankset. The PY10CP crankset is the top end Stronglight 93 which was superceded by the model 107, while the Competition sports a lower model 104 crankset. Some other differences such the chrome on the forks are more representative of model year than position in the line-up.

    Hopefully, Chongo and Raverson will not take offence to this assessment. The purpose of it is intended to educate readers on some of the differences between the mid range and high end Peugeot bicycles of the era.

    As for the original wheels for a PK12, the catalogue lists Rigida alloy 700C rims (no model listed) laced to Maillard Trophy small flange quick release hubs. Cogs were Maillard 700 series, 13-14-15-17-19-21T. Tires were Michelin BIB-TS-20.

    Dis you check for date codes on other parts? Something I just noticed doesn't quite jive with a 1981 date; the presence of a brazed on front derailleur. From my experience, these started appearing around 1983.

  12. #12
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    "Did it never occur to the French to stamp these #'s?"

    Earlier Peugeots had the serial numbers stamped on the BB shell. Yours missed the cutoff; I'm not sure when Peugeot moved over to the adhesive tape method, but it was sometime late seventies.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

    Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

  13. #13
    Senior Member ollo_ollo's Avatar
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    Good eye raverson.
    You have the basis of a great French bike. One of my favorite regular riders is this 70's Motobecane Grand Jubile I put together from an e-bay frame. I had the early Shimano 600 brakes/derailleurs & traded some stuff for a correct stem, bar & seatpost. I found a pair of Araya 700c semi-aero rims that were built up on Mavic hubs. They aren't period correct but go well on the bike. This year I added Giles Berthoud SS fenders, a leather mudflap & a small French saddlebag I found at Recycled Cycles in Seattle. Enjoy the project & put some pictures up when it's done. Don
    visit my homebuilding blog: www.monoplanar.blogspot.com

  14. #14
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    "If you have pics of your rides or if their posted elsewhere I'd love to see them."

    Poguemahone's Perplexing Peugeot Pile

    I think you've got the beginnings of a nice ride. I would give the frame and fork a through alignment check, though. The 128 spacing is wierd (my PK is at 122) and the front fork should be 100mm (though some earlier Peugeots, like the UOs, were at 96mm). The rear spacing my just be a reset, though. Or your bike may be later than mine, but aside from the color, it looks identical (and the braze on derailleur (?)).
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

    Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

  15. #15
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don d.
    Possibly this bike was reported stolen and the police have a report that could return it to it's owner. End of heartbreak.
    I agree Don and have considered that. I would love nothing more than to be able to walk up to the rightful owner and say here's your bike back, especially if it was one of the vintage bike lovers in this forum. My main hesitation with going to the police is, one, there is no serial # on the bike, and two, I would hate like heck for the police to say that since it doesn't belong to me that they will have take possession of it and then it wind up being sold at a police auction because it wasn't claimed. Does anyone have experience with a similar situation? One of the reasons I have posted this bike on the forum is the possibility that someone will see it and recognize it as theirs. The original LBS sticker is still on the bike and I have thought about approaching them, although that's a longshot I'm sure. They are about 35 miles from where I found the bike.

  16. #16
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Hopefully, Chongo and Raverson will not take offence to this assessment. The purpose of it is intended to educate readers on some of the differences between the mid range and high end Peugeot bicycles of the era.

    Absolutely no offense taken. I find this stuff fascinating and appreciate all the research and info. I pulled off the front caliper and it had 2-81 stamped on the back, which is consistent with the date on the pedals.

  17. #17
    don d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raverson
    I agree Don and have considered that. I would love nothing more than to be able to walk up to the rightful owner and say here's your bike back, especially if it was one of the vintage bike lovers in this forum. My main hesitation with going to the police is, one, there is no serial # on the bike, and two, I would hate like heck for the police to say that since it doesn't belong to me that they will have take possession of it and then it wind up being sold at a police auction because it wasn't claimed. Does anyone have experience with a similar situation? One of the reasons I have posted this bike on the forum is the possibility that someone will see it and recognize it as theirs. The original LBS sticker is still on the bike and I have thought about approaching them, although that's a longshot I'm sure. They are about 35 miles from where I found the bike.
    Since the dilemma has shown it's horns-don't you just hate morals , you may find appeasing it brings more satisfaction than keeping the bike ever could.

    You could call the police and ask them what their policy is regarding bikes turned in and unclaimed. They may have a waiting period after which the bike may be yours if you want it. Or you could buy it at the auction if that is your only recourse.

    The LBS may or may not have records about a bike it sold 20+ years ago, or they may recognize it as the bike of a regular customer. If they can't ID it, certainly they will not care what you do one way or the other.

    I did recently pick up for free an 80's era Puch with 531 tubes and Shimano Arabesque componentry. It was sitting outside the local Sheriff's office with about 5 other crap bikes. I went inside and asked the Sheriff what he was going to do with the bikes, and he said if I wanted one to take it, so I did. Right now there is an 80's era Takara MTB laying abandoned in a field not a mile from my home. I've walked my dog past that bike a hundred times. It was a top of the line model in it's day, all cromoly and good components, but I know who threw it there and it's not mine, so, se la vie, there it lays.

    Now if I could just make the time to work on the Puch.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by raverson
    I agree Don and have considered that. I would love nothing more than to be able to walk up to the rightful owner and say here's your bike back, especially if it was one of the vintage bike lovers in this forum. My main hesitation with going to the police is, one, there is no serial # on the bike, and two, I would hate like heck for the police to say that since it doesn't belong to me that they will have take possession of it and then it wind up being sold at a police auction because it wasn't claimed. Does anyone have experience with a similar situation? One of the reasons I have posted this bike on the forum is the possibility that someone will see it and recognize it as theirs. The original LBS sticker is still on the bike and I have thought about approaching them, although that's a longshot I'm sure. They are about 35 miles from where I found the bike.
    This past summer, I found a mid-1970s Windsor abandoned in a park. The rear wheel was totally trashed and bicycle itself was in very rough shape. However, there was a crankset that I could use for another project and I considered taking it home. First however, I contacted the police to inform them. They informed that I could not pick the bicycle up or lay claim to it. They would pick the bicycle up and if nobody claimed it, it would go up for auction. Well, I watched the park periodically over the next few days. It took three days for the bicycle to disappear. I don't now whether the police picked it up or the someone else took it home.

    In my experience, the police have little interest in tracking down owners of stolen/abandoned bicycles. In order for this to happen, the bicycle would have to have some sort of police lisence/registration on it. Otherwise it is too much trouble. If the bicycle is truly stolen, then the thief would surely have removed the lisence/registration.

    In the end, it becomes a moral dilemna. If you turn the bicycle in, there is little chance of it being returned to the owner and it will probably go up for police auction. However, there always is the remote possibility that the police could find the owner or worse, that you'd be identified riding a stolen bicycle! Personally, I wish the local police would use the same policy as for recovered money; if you turn it in and nobody claims it within 30 days, then it becomes your property.

  19. #19
    don d.
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    ...forgot to say, I think the fact that you "found" this bike in a fenced in lot, aka as private property, and that you had to construct a device to get the bike out is a consideration.

    If you keep it, you may want to paint it quick.
    Last edited by don d.; 12-12-04 at 10:08 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Chongo's Avatar
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    No offence taken. Don't know much about Peugeots other than the PX10's with their Mafac "squealer" brakes and what a bargain they were for a 531 frame.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Chongo's Avatar
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    Oops. My above response was to T-Mar. I still don't know how to work this site.

  22. #22
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don d.
    ...forgot to say, I think the fact that you "found" this bike in a fenced in lot, aka as private property, and that you had to construct a device to get the bike out is a consideration.

    If you keep it, you may want to paint it quick.
    Well I guess I have stepped in it. Tomorrow I will take your advice on two out of the three suggestions you made Don. I will call the LBS and if that turns up nothing I will call the police and see what they suggest. I think T-mar is correct in saying that the police have more important things to do than deal with these situations. But I won't know till I call and find out. I'll keep you all posted.

    As for the quick paint job...

  23. #23
    Glutton for Punishment
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollo_ollo
    Good eye raverson.
    You have the basis of a great French bike. One of my favorite regular riders is this 70's Motobecane Grand Jubile I put together from an e-bay frame. I had the early Shimano 600 brakes/derailleurs & traded some stuff for a correct stem, bar & seatpost. I found a pair of Araya 700c semi-aero rims that were built up on Mavic hubs. They aren't period correct but go well on the bike. This year I added Giles Berthoud SS fenders, a leather mudflap & a small French saddlebag I found at Recycled Cycles in Seattle. Enjoy the project & put some pictures up when it's done. Don
    Nice Moto, ollo -- not unlike my '68 Grand Touring.


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