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  1. #1
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    1939 Schwinn Paramount... any help?

    How hard would this be to restore? with as correct as possible parts? any info on this bike would be much appreciated, its hard to find any at all....

    thanks guys
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  2. #2
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Wow.

  3. #3
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    Wow.
    my same reaction....

  4. #4
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    There's some pretty good paint under the grime. Understandably, it is not perfect, but definitely worth keeping intact due to the survivor status of this Paramount. Without a doubt, it'll also be the cheapest method to finish the project.

    Give the paint a scrubbing with Meguiars Scratch X. Be careful around pinstriping and decals. Go over the chrome with fine, bronze wool (ACE Hardware will have this), followed by Flitz or similar metal polish.

    Assuming all the bearing races are good, simply clean them up, regrease, and re-assemble.

    EDIT: The worst of the chrome must be cleaned via oxalic acid; also known as wood bleach crystals. Get a small plastic bin, fill it with water, dump a teaspoon of the crystals in the water, and mix them thoroughly. Place chromed parts in the bath - make sure to take them apart (in the case of the stem, remove the wedge, bolt, and anything else), and NEVER put aluminum, zinc, or galvanized parts in the oxalic bath (that's why you take everything apart; to make sure you don't contaminate the bath). Wait a bit; maybe 30 minutes to an hour. Remove part and dump it in an identical bath with baking soda to neutralize it - then bronze wool the remaining rust; it'll come off very easily.

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 12-31-11 at 12:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    There's some pretty good paint under the grime. Understandably, it is not perfect, but definitely worth keeping intact due to the survivor status of this Paramount. Without a doubt, it'll also be the cheapest method to finish the project.

    Give the paint a scrubbing with Meguiars Scratch X. Be careful around pinstriping and decals. Go over the chrome with fine, bronze wool (ACE Hardware will have this), followed by Flitz or similar metal polish.

    Assuming all the bearing races are good, simply clean them up, regrease, and re-assemble.

    -Kurt
    +1 - this bike deserves to remain as original as possible.

    (I'm in San Leandro, by the way. Let me know if I can do anything for this project!)

  6. #6
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    There's some pretty good paint under the grime. Understandably, it is not perfect, but definitely worth keeping intact due to the survivor status of this Paramount. Without a doubt, it'll also be the cheapest method to finish the project.

    Give the paint a scrubbing with Meguiars Scratch X. Be careful around pinstriping and decals. Go over the chrome with fine, bronze wool (ACE Hardware will have this), followed by Flitz or similar metal polish.

    Assuming all the bearing races are good, simply clean them up, regrease, and re-assemble.

    EDIT: The worst of the chrome must be cleaned via oxalic acid; also known as wood bleach crystals. Get a small plastic bin, fill it with water, dump a teaspoon of the crystals in the water, and mix them thoroughly. Place chromed parts in the bath - make sure to take them apart (in the case of the stem, remove the wedge, bolt, and anything else), and NEVER put aluminum, zinc, or galvanized parts in the oxalic bath (that's why you take everything apart; to make sure you don't contaminate the bath). Wait a bit; maybe 30 minutes to an hour. Remove part and dump it in an identical bath with baking soda to neutralize it - then bronze wool the remaining rust; it'll come off very easily.

    -Kurt
    fantastic! thanks a lot, this is going to be a project that I'd like to take the time to do correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRietz View Post
    +1 - this bike deserves to remain as original as possible.

    (I'm in San Leandro, by the way. Let me know if I can do anything for this project!)
    My exact feeling; I'd love to see it looking like it did 72 years ago... haha
    (I'm actually in San Leandro as well surprisingly, I will definitely let you know!)

  7. #7
    K2ProFlex baby! ilikebikes's Avatar
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    I soak my rusty chrome parts in white vinegar over night, next morning the rust washes off with a wet cloth, no neutralizing or remaining rust! =0) Not knockin' Cudak888, he knows what he's talking about, Just sayin' ;0)
    Last edited by ilikebikes; 12-31-11 at 12:33 AM.
    You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

  8. #8
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    fantastic! thanks a lot, this is going to be a project that I'd like to take the time to do correctly.
    If it's all there and intact, you should be able to have it together in 7 days work. Polishing and cleaning will take more time than putting it back together.

    Do remember to pick up some nice replacement tubular tires. Even though the skinwall Vittoria tires in most bike shops appear to be the most attractive option for the vintage look, they don't sit well. Try your luck with a better set of skinwall tubulars online - I'm sure the gents here will have suggestions.

    -Kurt

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    That service tag looks a wee bit familiar - any chance that bike came out of the deep recesses of Mr. Robinson's shop?

  10. #10
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRietz View Post
    That service tag looks a wee bit familiar - any chance that bike came out of the deep recesses of Mr. Robinson's shop?
    I can't say that it does. My grandfather owned a Schwinn store back in the early 60's, and this happened to roll in one day... he ended up owning it several minutes later, and now he would like me to restore it for him.

  11. #11
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    You should talk to Scooper...

    Scooper's 1938 Paramount track bike

  12. #12
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    You should talk to Scooper...

    Scooper's 1938 Paramount track bike
    wow thats gorgeous...

  13. #13
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    I'm not knocking Stan's frame - it's beautiful, and it's previous condition required the restoration - but there are too many other, over-restored frames out there to send this one to that fate.

    Don't repaint it. "Restore" it by refurbishing it, and removing any unnecessary grime that does not deserve to be called "patina." Think of Jay Leno's 1927 Dusenberg Model X - polished, serviced, and repaired - but otherwise original:



    Of note, it's virtually impossible to find any still photos of this car online. There seems to be an idiotic belief in the collectible automobile world that everything must be subject to overrestoration, or it's not worth paying attention to. Ridiculous.

    -Kurt

    P.S.: The chromed headtube is very unusual.
    Last edited by cudak888; 12-31-11 at 01:38 AM.

  14. #14
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    wow thats gorgeous...
    I would agree with Kurt that your frame does not need this level of restoration and would think that many of us do not have pockets deep enough to pull something like this off anyways.

    There is a beauty in keeping things as original as possible and preserving what you have... it is only original once and think Kurt and I both have some bicycle that some might want to send to the painters and we just keep them as they are.

  15. #15
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    it is only original once and think Kurt and I both have some bicycle that some might want to send to the painters and we just keep them as they are.
    I would no sooner send your '54 Sports or '55 Lenton to the painters than my own '61 Paramount P12. They deserve to remain as they are - refurbished, cleaned, but original.

    -Kurt

  16. #16
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    thats the right idea, i personally like refurbished look, so i think i'll just clean the hell out of it, and not do anything drastic.

    regarding the headtube: Did they come that way? seems strange for the original owner to have stripped and polished only the headtube.

  17. #17
    Get off my lawn! Velognome's Avatar
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    Wow, that is beautiful! Just remember that once you clan and reassemble it....ride it!

  18. #18
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    thats the right idea, i personally like refurbished look, so i think i'll just clean the hell out of it, and not do anything drastic.

    regarding the headtube: Did they come that way? seems strange for the original owner to have stripped and polished only the headtube.
    I cannot believe no one has asked, "What is the serial number?"

    Regarding the chrome headtube. I've seen this vintage Paramount completely chromed. Looking closely at this photo, it looks as if there is chrome under the paint here at the toptube/seatstay area. I wonder if your grandfather's Paramount was originally all chrome, and painted this way by Schwinn.



    Here's the Chrome early Paramount.



    But did you notice the difference in the caps on the seatstays? (Stan Cooper's Waterford refinished Paramount)



    Kind of weird?
    Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 12-31-11 at 07:38 AM.
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  19. #19
    K2ProFlex baby! ilikebikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    I'm not knocking Stan's frame - it's beautiful, and it's previous condition required the restoration - but there are too many other, over-restored frames out there to send this one to that fate.

    Don't repaint it. "Restore" it by refurbishing it, and removing any unnecessary grime that does not deserve to be called "patina." Think of Jay Leno's 1927 Dusenberg Model X - polished, serviced, and repaired - but otherwise original:



    Of note, it's virtually impossible to find any still photos of this car online. There seems to be an idiotic belief in the collectible automobile world that everything must be subject to overrestoration, or it's not worth paying attention to. Ridiculous.

    -Kurt

    P.S.: The chromed headtube is very unusual.
    Hear! hear!
    You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

  20. #20
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    thats the right idea, i personally like refurbished look, so i think i'll just clean the hell out of it, and not do anything drastic.

    regarding the headtube: Did they come that way? seems strange for the original owner to have stripped and polished only the headtube.
    Excellent - I think you'll enjoy the original look. It is much more satisfactory, and gives you a feeling of being connected with the bike's past.

    I have no reason to doubt that it came that way. Schwinn did some oddballs in the early years. Case in point, there's an early all-chrome second-gen in the registry that has a red headtube - special order.

    Take care,

    -Kurt

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    Youve got a project Im truly jealous of, and I dont say that often... I don't see bars there... you have them or need to find them....? Looks like you have most of the hardest parts to find like the hubs, cranks and stem

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    The seat stay caps was the first image I opened, that and the chrome head tube was next. This bike got special attention way back, too bad the records are toast.
    Some bikes deserve repaint. This one does not.
    Orange tubulars are around, I think I just saw some by Wobler on ebait recently. Possibly on one of Baron Corpuz's alias storefronts. Or, you could call The Bici on State in Santa Barbara. Or drive down for a nice weekend.

  23. #23
    iab
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    There seems to be an idiotic belief in the collectible automobile world that everything must be subject to overrestoration, or it's not worth paying attention to. Ridiculous.
    While I agree with everything else you wrote, this is just plain silly. 20+ years ago I was a lacky in the car "restoration" business. At that time, preservation was more desireable than restoration. And it was more expensive to preserve rather than restore because the techniques needed were much more time consuming. It's easy to sandblast, hammer, bondo and paint. But try removing a dent without harming the paint - that takes incredible effort.

    While I would agree a 100 point restoration is over done, there has always been a premium for a preserved car for at least the last 20 years.

    Again, there is no need to "restore" this bike. Remove any oxidation and any oxidizing agents put some wax on it to keep out any new oxidizing agents and call it a day. 90% can be done with Dawn soap and water.

  24. #24
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iab View Post
    While I agree with everything else you wrote, this is just plain silly. 20+ years ago I was a lacky in the car "restoration" business. At that time, preservation was more desireable than restoration. And it was more expensive to preserve rather than restore because the techniques needed were much more time consuming. It's easy to sandblast, hammer, bondo and paint. But try removing a dent without harming the paint - that takes incredible effort.

    While I would agree a 100 point restoration is over done, there has always been a premium for a preserved car for at least the last 20 years.
    No doubt. I was not contesting that preservation is a particular art form in that field, but it has come to a point wherein an entire car will get repainted just because a valance panel has too many paint chips.

    As you note, preservation was more desirable than restoration at that time, 20 years ago. Classic car media outlets have been very successful in polluting the public's mind as of recent years.

    -Kurt

  25. #25
    Senior Member toytech's Avatar
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    I am also in San Leandro. I have a surplus of oxalic acid crystals if you need some I will hook you up.
    Chris
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