thirdgenbird

its been over a year since i bought the parts but i am finally ready to build my NOS wheelset. i intended to do it last year but other things occupied my time any finances (wedding, auto purchase, auto repairs)

i ended up selling the "old" wheels so now i am committed.

rider specs:
6'1"
175lbs

bike specs:
1996 tommasini tecno
campagnolo alloy mix
nice weather casual rides, centuries, charity rides

purchased parts:
NOS 28h chorus/athena front hub

NOS 28h record 10 rear hub

NOS 28h seoul 88 rims (602 ERD)


spoke plans:
font
2x
dt revolution 1.8/1.5 (or sapim cxray)

rear
2x
dt competition 1.8/1.6 (or cxray) drive side
dt revolution 1.8/1.5 (or cxray) NDS


which of these if any do you recommend? will these be sufficiently stiff or should i go with heavier spokes?

i used two spoke calculators and got the same results but i still wouldnt mind someone checking my work:

thirdgenbird

if anyone has any overall advice for wheel builds i am all ears. am i silly for tackling this without a tension gauge?

mazdaspeed

Based on my research, sapim spokes come highly recommended and that's what I'm going to use when I build a set of wheels. I doubt you need heavier spokes, if the rim is strong and they're laced correctly I doubt it's a problem. The sapims are supposedly pretty strong anyway.

This is also highly recommended: (look up reviews they're all extremely positive)

https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

Lastly if you feel like you need a tension gauge you can borrow mine if you want to pay for shipping there and back, I won't need it for a few weeks at least. I won a wheelsmith gauge on ebay for $20 a few months ago lol...

thirdgenbird

thanks!

the rims are very stout. they are the same as the old omega V. here is a quote from velobase:
ive read good things about the cxray spokes as well but cant decide if it is worth the extra cost


i may take you up on the tension gauge. im not sure when i will get the spoke order in but if i need it i will be in contact.

DRietz

Casey,

First things first - screw you for owning that Record 28h hub. :drool:

Second - your build looks great for your weight. DT Rev spokes are fantastic, and I used them around my entire rear wheel as well as alloy nipples to go for a truly light set up. However, based on the fact that you power around on 180mm cranks, I'd say keep the Competitions on the drive side.

From my experience, DT outdoes Sapim by a tenfold margin in terms of quality and longevity - plus they're US-based. The only reason to go for Sapim is if you're building an aero wheel, and with 28spokes on front and rear, you're going to hit an aero block far before those spokes will have a chance to do you any good.

Third - unsure if you've built wheels before, but you DON'T need a spoke gauge. My experience with spoke gauges is that they can cause some pretty serious headaches that aren't really warranted when building a bicycle wheel.

Fourth - if you were closer to me, I'd volunteer to come help you out, but I have faith that you can do this. Wheel building is fun as hell and very meditative.

Fifth - as a side note, since those wheels don't have eyelets, I think you may need some nipple washers dependent on whatever spoke you choose.

auchencrow

This might be self evident to most, but having a real wheel truing stand makes this job immeasurably easier.
The second bit of advice is to focus on getting the wheel ROUND first - tensioning it gradually, and then deal with the lateral truing.

I don't think a tension gage is critical if you work slowly and evenly.

ColonelJLloyd 

I've used Edd Spoke, Sapim Race spokes and chromed, brass nipples on several wheel builds lately and I'll use both for my next wheel build. I buy my spokes from this seller (email). I would build them with cross 3 lacing. I've read and found The Bicycle Wheel and recommend it.

mazdaspeed

If they're anything like campy omega v rims they're gonna be strong. I have a set of those laced to mavic 501 hubs on my bianchi, I've taken some direct hits, crashed them, and they're still perfectly true. Anyhow it's up to you on the spokes, I dunno where you were planning on buying them from but this place probably has the best prices on sapim:

https://www.bikehubstore.com/Default.asp

thirdgenbird

my dad as a decent truing stand that i have access to.

thirdgenbird

Edd Spoke was the other calculator i used. with the inputs above i got the same results as the DT swiss site. ive got screen ****s from there too.

i will look into both retailers, thanks

thirdgenbird

when doing a build like this do you guys often buy spare spokes? would two of each length be sufficient?

ColonelJLloyd 

I bought one spoke extra per side of each wheel for my first couple of builds. I've never needed one during building and the last few builds I haven't ordered extra. My LBS has spokes and a threader that can get the job done in a pinch if I need one.

thirdgenbird

my LBS does have a threader but i was weary of cut vs rolled threads

ColonelJLloyd 

Then order a few extra. We're not talking about a lot of money here.

thirdgenbird

more questions...

trailing spokes, where should they be? my bikes are all different.

should they be in or out on the drive side?

should the NDS be a mirror image (trailing spokes out on both non drive and drive) or should it be "copied" on the no drive side (out on the DS and in on the NDS)

thirdgenbird

i may have answered my own question as it looks like the pros choose to put the trailing spokes on the outside of both flanges for the paris roubaix

Michael Angelo 

Did you measure the ERD yourself? It makes a big difference. I recently built similar wheels 32F,36R Campy 10speed record Hubs, DT Swiss Competition Spokes, Mavic open pros.

thirdgenbird

no, two online sources list the ERD at 602mm. is there any way to verify this?

ColonelJLloyd 

I would trust that. But, yeah, you could measure the ERD. Remember to round down the spoke measurement to the nearest whole millimeter. Again, I really recommend reading The Bicycle Wheel before your first build. All of your questions can be answered there.

Puget Pounder

I try to measure out the ERD. With Open Pros, I think I measured out an additional 2 - 3mm to whats listed on the mavic site. Something about them measuring the spoke nipple bead differently?

Michael Angelo 

I did measure the Open Pros I used they were ERD 603. The tool I made is very accurate. This is the spoke calculator I used https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/. The spoke lengths were perfect.

thirdgenbird

what are the chances you have access to a seoul 88/omega v rim

not that it manners for the build but i should also not that despite the fact i am using a non matched older front hub i did locate a matching front skewer. (as shown in your pictures) they are my favorite made.

miamijim

If its a Phil Wood machine the spoke is cut and then threads are rolled.....I've probably cut 30-40,000 spokes on a Phil machine

I remember reading a DT or Mavic tech article way back in the day that recommended the spoke heads for the drive spokes to be on the inside of the flange.

miamijim

And...an ERD difference of +/- 2 isnt going to make and difference on a laced wheel. And a overall spoke length difference +/- 2 isnt going to make a difference either.

thirdgenbird

i havent seen it but i doubt it is a phil woods machine. it is a very tiny shop that doesnt do much for wheel building. i was shocked he had one as he doesnt have any frame prep tools. i also dont believe he has campagnolo cassette or chain tool

further research seems to show that european builders favor outboard trailing spokes while Americans prefer internal. prebuilt campy wheels all have outboard trailing spokes so i will stick with this model.